Taken from Elodie's French blog: Pour Que Vive Le Sahaj Marg this is a post by Alexis. Translated by the author using Google Translate.
Wednesday, September 24, 2008
Depression
"Many Preceptors have problems with depression, why?"
So who is this sentence by, in your opinion?
I leave you to think about it, we will return to it ...
In the training manual for preceptors, the circumstances in which it is forbidden to bring someone into Sahaj Marg are specified. Thus the following should not be admitted to the practice (the conditional is not mine, but by the SRCM):
- Lepers,
- Alcoholics and drug addicts,
- People who have bad character (sic) and do not want to change,
- Mentally disturbed people
Although of interest, leaving aside the first 3 categories, we focus on the last one (as does the SRCM). I quote "(...) transmission may exacerbate the mental problems of such persons and even in some cases bring about suicidal tendencies. In particular, a person who received EST (Electro Shock Therapy) should never be introduced into the Mission. The Master said such treatments affect the brain irreversibly. No problem for cases of mild depression. One should avoid transmitting to someone who is already an abhyasi and suffers from mental depression (...). "
Clearly, the preceptor must refuse to introduce people with "non benign" depression as well as the transmission to abhyasis who suffer from depression, as long as their affection lasts.
How many preceptors ask the many people they approach to recruit, whether they suffered Electro Shock Therapy (EST) or what is the state of their mental health? How many (preceptors) interview abhyasis on their current mental state before starting either an individual or a sitting (satsangh)?
To my knowledge, the preceptors are not trained by SRCM in identifying depression. I even understand that they persevere most often on psychologically fragile people to introduce them. It's easier and the results are better. As for preceptors who are professional "psy" they do the opposite of what is stated in the manual, they introduce some of their clients. A Swiss psychotherapist preceptor followed 54 patients for 8 years, all introduced to the SRCM, "about 30% are so-called " un-structured ". If I take the usual psychiatric classification they include borderline personality, - borderline neurotic and pre-psychotic (...)". Mild depression? I am not a "shrink" ...
Moreover Chari "cares" from time to time by pulling the alarm:
In a speech on 31/12/1992, he said "(...) our preceptors must be very careful when they accept new abhyasis to ensure that they do not have people here who can not be helped. I make specific allusion and refer to people who have mental problems, which have undergone therapy in psychiatric hospitals or in offices. Such cases are becoming more frequent (...)."
The explanation follows in "Whispers", dated 10 April 2001. Babuji would have delivered these words from beyond the grave: "Be wary of the confusion that is being made between the workings of our spiritual psychoanalytical method and all practices that are currently springing up. It is not desirable to make connections between them. Criticisms currently made by the media against Sahaj Marg in France, allude to leaders who manipulate our candidates by involving them in both disciplines. It would be necessary to stop mixing it all up by considering abhyasis as potential customers and vice versa. Preceptors Therapist are not serious enough on this point, hence are already numerous problems caused by this lack of vigilance. "
Good! You've had time to reflect. So from whom then is this sentence: "Many preceptors have problems with depression, why?"
Chari? No, not even ... It is Ajay Kumar Bhatter, the dauphin (heir apparent), about preceptors in Europe, following his takeover of the controls for the region, since the beginning of the year.
This staggering statement can only surprise us.
Chari asks his troops to not introduce "non-mild" depressives into the Mission, but he himself has chosen depressive preceptors. He had to! In the preceptor's manual, in the absence of training of the preceptors, it is just stated that if the preceptor is hesitant, it is sufficient for him (the preceptor) to send the picture of the candidate to Chari for advice ...
In short, either Chari and Ajay are also unable to detect depression (from a photo) or on the contrary they actively seek them out, and pretend to be surprised at the outcome (but to what end? To better hold them? (dependent) ) Or, maybe the act of becoming a preceptor itself makes people depressive and Ajay is only noticing today ...
In any case, it is staggering!
And... this post on the same blog in the Comments by "Anonymous":
Does that not sound familiar: First, the claim of "religious persecution" followed by first targeting and then attacks on the "phantom" enemy who then becomes the "victim" of religions. And the "holy" jihadists, always get the "right person" of course. Or do they just say like all religions, and excuse their crimes by the militarism: "collateral damage" or "God will sort them out"
Hello Elodie,
It is now turning into delirium.
Here is an excerpt from an e-mail sent to me this weekend, perhaps by an abhyasi or at least by someone with a close link with the SRCMtm - for publication on your blog.
Bye!
"I was informed that those responsible for SRCM France are desperate about the success of the blogs. They do not know what to do, neither does Ajay, by the way. Because abhyasis receive the list of blogs and that it destabilizes the lot, they are in search of the abhyasis who transfer this information by e-mail addresses. They plan therefore to trace the e-mails received to reach those responsible. They are crazy, but I am sure that there must be a lot of experts in computer. therefore careful with your blogs and even with your private e-mails because they will not be shy."
Wednesday, September 24, 2008
Wednesday, September 17, 2008
Testimonial from Cyrille-Old Abhyasi from the French Faction of SRCM
Taken from Elodie's French Blog: Pour Que Vive le Sahaj Marg
(up-dated Sept 19, 2008...New New questions and answers at the end of the original post)
Monday, September 15, 2008
André Poray, Sister Kastury, ...
Testimonial from Cyrille
I actually started in the practice of Sahaj Marg in 1977 and I met Babuji for the first time in 1979 just before Basant.
I was very early (in life) interested in the esoteric, spirituality and religions, and when I was told about a conference in Nice (France) on spirituality I attended. A large man (André Poray) already of a certain advanced age, gave this conference, with the help of a 16mm film of average quality but the discourse was clear; just before the intermission it was proposed to listen to the chants of some Tibetan monks and to remain a few minutes in silence so as to observe our interior "state", to me, the time of listening seemed long and to say it was all "boring" (it was my first experience of such songs) a few seconds after I heard: "you can open your eyes! " I told my friends, with whom I had come, that there had been no time between the end of the music and now!... but they affirmed the contrary, laughing and saying that I must have fallen asleep (I was not convinced). The conference ended with images of his master (Babuji), a small old man, quite ordinary, in a house that was also quite ordinary, and the speaker offered that those who wanted to stay and experience this technique of meditation could do so. Same experience as before: loss of the concept of time, same amused laughter of friends, but basically, deep inside me a kind of excitement, an inside agitation difficult to define, I advised the person (Roger Voué), who had told us about the conference and who seemed to be familiar with the speaker, I talked about this strange feeling, he said nothing conclusive and I was going to to have a book that had been written by this speaker (a collection of short stories " Yang and spiritual search "), dedicated.
The man was calm with a voice a the same time strong, poised and soft, I explained to him what I had felt, he had made me sit down at his side, the time for the dedication (of the book) (with all my wishes for spiritual progress) and placed his hand on my shoulder for a few seconds, and calm returned with a premium? I do not know what more to say, but it's been in my mind ever since, to my request for more information on this technique, he asked me who had invited me to this evening and when I told him, he answered that this person was capable of telling me more.
For several weeks I came across Roger who never had time to dedicate to me, and therefore I stayed with my questions, but by dint of perseverance he finally told me: "OK, if you want to know more, in a fortnight (20 days) a person is to come to the Var in Sanary, but you should come and see me a few times before so I can explain (the system) "
I had my first three sittings (initiation) and perhaps even four, during which I did not feel anything…
(But I was very young with a thirst for extra sensory experiences hihihi... well I was disappointed.) About the explanations on the technique, it was very brief. But this impatience and this curiosity was always there.
I decided therefore to to to Sanary in the "blue center" where were presented courses of all kinds. Full accomodation was proposed at prices that were quite correct and neither registration nor nothing else was asked of me, I specify that because I can tell you that I came here on tiptoes, wondering where I was putting my feet, being by nature prudent and wary of sects and religions.
A few hundred people were there, the first impression is that they had a "normal" demeanour and were not more "enlightened" than that, and of various backgrounds, age and social milieu, but nothing unusual so far. No more decorum than that, or ostentatious ritual; the Indian person who was expected was there, in fact it was a woman of fifty years, accompanied by another Indian man who was somewhat cultured (Sister Kastury was the first person sent to Europe by Babuji), the people greeted her respectfully without more than that, but there was nothing odd.
The silent meditations appeared almost all interminable, I opened occasionally a curious eye to see all these people sitting seriously in silence, I admit that several times, I wanted to laugh being of a happy nature and somewhat mischievous and a little iconoclast at the edges (that is 30 minutes of silence), but still no sensations neither pleasant nor unpleasant. There were several organized discussions and several times this Indian sang devotional songs, accompanied by a small harmonium, (I was not, nor am I keen on these tunes, but there emanated from her and from those melodies such a dose of love for her master that even to this day I recall this memory with emotion.
During these 3 or 4 days I sympathized with several people and when it was time to leave, I was surprised to feel like a member of a family in which one said goodbye (nothing very logical in all that). Only on the way back, I felt something a little different: I had the impression of discovering the landscape, or rather the colors, shapes with a new look, as if a veil had been removed or some new glasses? (nothing much logical in all that either! let alone scientifically explainable).
Nevertheless something was produced, but nothing quantifiable or qualifiable that pushed me to persevere this process, and that until today.
NB: André Poray was one of the first European to meet Babuji in India, he did during his life, not stop talking about him and make him known, refusing any kind of proselytizing and commercial drift. He very early warned against the taking of power by Chari and he was also to receive a letter (from Chari) telling him he was no longer a preceptor of the Mission, which made us all laugh.
PS: I've never had any other master than Babuji, and I see all these older brothers as instruments in the service of the progress towards…! ( "Where religion ends, spirituality begins, where spirituality ends, reality begins, where reality ends, real bliss begins, what happens beyond that is inexpressible" Babuji)
So there! That is it for today, I will return later on the "excesses due to the commercialization of the Mission, which were already taking place, in the very early 70's. "
Cyrille
Cyrille said…
Thanks Elodie for following up, sorry to give you this work!
Hello everyone I will try to answer each (comments) in order.
Elodie: "You say that you've already seen commercial excesses in the 70"
I understand the confusion, I was getting ready to respond to Alexis and about the same, to Dr KC Varadachari; I have at no time observed any financial abuses in India or in Europe;
-- Regarding India my opinion (fragmented) shall consist only of my two trips 79 and 81 where I went to Shahjahanpur and Udaipur and Bombay and during these periods nothing and no one asked us for anything, an amount was indicated and given as a donation for the day but it was more than modest, the books of Babuji were printed in the courtyard of his house, at his costs, and they were also sold at cost, Babuji forbade that money be spent unnecessarily and during these many trips across India, he traveled by train, in 3rd class (which no longer exists by the way). Several times, at the beginning of the mission he was asked to accept a sharing in the cost of food. He replied "how can I ask members of my family or my own children to pay (for food)!" He resigned himself to accept when the abhyasis, during the celebrations became more and more numerous. For info, during these celebrations most of the vegetables, rice, lentils were grown on his land, the ashram was also built on this land to the detriment of his own family; Now I have seen very little from the other regions and what was going on but all my Indian friends (who also were careful not to join Chari) have never mentioned any financial abuses before his (Babuji) departure in 83 (which is not to say that there could not have been any) but all groups that have continued and continue to gather in his name gain from it no assets nor fortunes… many times older preceptors came to France and none of them have ever benefited, neither here nor at home in India. I have regularly returned to India to meet Ragavendra Rao Raïchur, Ramachandra Reddy from Cuddapah, Narayan Rao of Gulbarga, Kastury in Lucknow, Vital Rao in Bangalore, all full preceptors of Babuji and faithful to him only, none of them lives or has lived by drawing advantage from their status or notoriety, putting forward no one but their Master Babuji. Just an anecdote about Babuji's car (still visible in Shahjahanpur), a Southern Abhyasi wanted to one day to offer a car ot Babuji who had always refused to buy one, but because of his advancing age everyone advised him to accept, he remained adamant, the person then asked Babuji permission to park "for convenience" this car at the Ashram and he could use it if necessary, Babuji eventually accepted. The "icing on the cake" the license plate, with three letters and four numbers is GAG 8078. (photo available)
As far as France is concerned, from 77 to 83 I have never contributed to any "party", no collections for future gifts to Babuji (he would have hastened to refuse, I suppose), the first translations of Babuji books were made voluntarily and the prints were always sold almost at cost. I can say that during all these years I never have witnessed any financial abuse.
Elodie: "For my part, I'd like to know if you are still numerous, in these groups who have not followed Chariji, do you still meet with Sister Kastury or André Poray and if you make large gatherings, even if not on the scale of those organised by the Shri Ram Chandra Mission of Chariji. "
Yes and no, it depends on regions and compared to 83 and before and after there are no pictures! Lyon (where I live) has a large group and preceptors, Tours where I am going this Friday for a week-end meditation, in The Maritime Alps with some old and some new (abhyasis) who I see regularly, once a month (my family is still there), Paris, in the south west, Switzerland and a loyal group in Barcelona (Spain) that we meet regularly, 3 times per year, including Sanary in October where we have kept the habit of getting together.
I still see a Sister Kasturi (who is no longer very young) I'll be there this month of February after Basant, André Poray left us a few years ago (he would have been one hundred years old this year, I think) and a compilation of these letters with Babuji is being published.
4d-Don "The only evidence that we had of this period was that of Michael, who was a preceptor in the Boston area, USA, and had known Andre Poray in France ... "
I probably must have met him, but I can not put a face to the name, I remember clearly a Jim, a red-headed American from whom, I have had no news for some time.
Alexis: "What happened in France at the death of Babuji? Is it at that time that Poray received his letter of dismissal or before? "
After the death of Babuji all preceptors received a letter from their Chari intimating the order to recognize him as the Chairman of the Mission failing which they would no longer be preceptors of the mission (and could no longer TRANSMIT (more followed later)). It was only later that he proclaimed himself successor of Babuji! What heresy! Babuji said, "If I lived even one minute as the Master I would fall immediately! "Babuji never, even at the request of some, facing the drifting of a precptor, dismissed anyone:" I am here to make preceptors not for undoing them, but if a preceptor has become lost, the transmission would stop of itself."
Alexis: "I find it quite surprising that your group of meditators are still, 30 years later, unconnected with the SRCM of Chari, particularly in the Var where the preceptors of Chari are in power. "
I see nothing surprising in that, I met last year at Fatehgarh the grandson of Lalaji with which we meditated, some groups have continued to follow Lalaji without interfering with Sahaj Marg, there is not only "One way to reach the summit of the mountain". Now to me, what Chari advocates has radically nothing to do with the "simple, natural Path" of Babuji.
Alexis: "I think notably of an old "full preceptor from Sanary, buddy as a pig with Chari ... "
? I do not see anyone else than Andre Poray as full preceptor at Sanary, he was, is is true, friend with Chari, but several mail exchanges after the physical departurel of Babuji attest to the warnings concerning the turn that the Mission was taking, and very quickly, he stepped back, and broke his solidarity with the mission. It was the same for virtually all the full preceptors of Babuji.
Alexis: "Did André Poray not become involved in Buddhism? He gives that impression at his conferences. What happened to Babuji in there? "
Andre always had a weakness for the Tibetan cause and sponsored a number of centres, we were even allowed to meet Kalourimpoché in Nice where we did a meditation with him, led by Andre. At the end of this meditation, the Lama asked to see the photo of Babuji and said to the great surprise of some "small monks" being ignored at his sides "this is a great personality, this is a very good path, continue!" They were both open, one and the other, but if in some of these conferences he spoke of Tibetans or compared the different techniques or religions, he has always remained faithful to his master that he placed in front of everything. Babuji never asked (us) to renounce anything, neither interest nor passion, or religion. André was simply human, and even at the end of his life we were not eager to hear him speak of Borobudur temples or Egyptians or Tibetans I can assure you that when he stood in front of you, over 90 years old, you had the impression of being at the foot of Babuji (once we made abstraction of the physical of course). He, in my opinion, has always been a faithful tool in the hands of his master, neither more nor less.
Thank you all for your interest
Cyrille
Alexis said:
Alexis said ...
Cyrille
Thank you for answering our questions. This suggests some new ones ... including some on the Indian full preceptors. Who are they? How are they still alive? Have they created movements in India? Have they suffered attacks from the Chari's henchmen, as the children of Babuji? For the grandson of Lalaji and Kasturi, do they still have links with Chari (are they preceptors of the SRCM)? And in Europe, how many preceptors do you have? Are all old and trained by Babuji?
(up-dated Sept 19, 2008...New New questions and answers at the end of the original post)
Monday, September 15, 2008
André Poray, Sister Kastury, ...
Testimonial from Cyrille
I actually started in the practice of Sahaj Marg in 1977 and I met Babuji for the first time in 1979 just before Basant.
I was very early (in life) interested in the esoteric, spirituality and religions, and when I was told about a conference in Nice (France) on spirituality I attended. A large man (André Poray) already of a certain advanced age, gave this conference, with the help of a 16mm film of average quality but the discourse was clear; just before the intermission it was proposed to listen to the chants of some Tibetan monks and to remain a few minutes in silence so as to observe our interior "state", to me, the time of listening seemed long and to say it was all "boring" (it was my first experience of such songs) a few seconds after I heard: "you can open your eyes! " I told my friends, with whom I had come, that there had been no time between the end of the music and now!... but they affirmed the contrary, laughing and saying that I must have fallen asleep (I was not convinced). The conference ended with images of his master (Babuji), a small old man, quite ordinary, in a house that was also quite ordinary, and the speaker offered that those who wanted to stay and experience this technique of meditation could do so. Same experience as before: loss of the concept of time, same amused laughter of friends, but basically, deep inside me a kind of excitement, an inside agitation difficult to define, I advised the person (Roger Voué), who had told us about the conference and who seemed to be familiar with the speaker, I talked about this strange feeling, he said nothing conclusive and I was going to to have a book that had been written by this speaker (a collection of short stories " Yang and spiritual search "), dedicated.
The man was calm with a voice a the same time strong, poised and soft, I explained to him what I had felt, he had made me sit down at his side, the time for the dedication (of the book) (with all my wishes for spiritual progress) and placed his hand on my shoulder for a few seconds, and calm returned with a premium? I do not know what more to say, but it's been in my mind ever since, to my request for more information on this technique, he asked me who had invited me to this evening and when I told him, he answered that this person was capable of telling me more.
For several weeks I came across Roger who never had time to dedicate to me, and therefore I stayed with my questions, but by dint of perseverance he finally told me: "OK, if you want to know more, in a fortnight (20 days) a person is to come to the Var in Sanary, but you should come and see me a few times before so I can explain (the system) "
I had my first three sittings (initiation) and perhaps even four, during which I did not feel anything…
(But I was very young with a thirst for extra sensory experiences hihihi... well I was disappointed.) About the explanations on the technique, it was very brief. But this impatience and this curiosity was always there.
I decided therefore to to to Sanary in the "blue center" where were presented courses of all kinds. Full accomodation was proposed at prices that were quite correct and neither registration nor nothing else was asked of me, I specify that because I can tell you that I came here on tiptoes, wondering where I was putting my feet, being by nature prudent and wary of sects and religions.
A few hundred people were there, the first impression is that they had a "normal" demeanour and were not more "enlightened" than that, and of various backgrounds, age and social milieu, but nothing unusual so far. No more decorum than that, or ostentatious ritual; the Indian person who was expected was there, in fact it was a woman of fifty years, accompanied by another Indian man who was somewhat cultured (Sister Kastury was the first person sent to Europe by Babuji), the people greeted her respectfully without more than that, but there was nothing odd.
The silent meditations appeared almost all interminable, I opened occasionally a curious eye to see all these people sitting seriously in silence, I admit that several times, I wanted to laugh being of a happy nature and somewhat mischievous and a little iconoclast at the edges (that is 30 minutes of silence), but still no sensations neither pleasant nor unpleasant. There were several organized discussions and several times this Indian sang devotional songs, accompanied by a small harmonium, (I was not, nor am I keen on these tunes, but there emanated from her and from those melodies such a dose of love for her master that even to this day I recall this memory with emotion.
During these 3 or 4 days I sympathized with several people and when it was time to leave, I was surprised to feel like a member of a family in which one said goodbye (nothing very logical in all that). Only on the way back, I felt something a little different: I had the impression of discovering the landscape, or rather the colors, shapes with a new look, as if a veil had been removed or some new glasses? (nothing much logical in all that either! let alone scientifically explainable).
Nevertheless something was produced, but nothing quantifiable or qualifiable that pushed me to persevere this process, and that until today.
NB: André Poray was one of the first European to meet Babuji in India, he did during his life, not stop talking about him and make him known, refusing any kind of proselytizing and commercial drift. He very early warned against the taking of power by Chari and he was also to receive a letter (from Chari) telling him he was no longer a preceptor of the Mission, which made us all laugh.
PS: I've never had any other master than Babuji, and I see all these older brothers as instruments in the service of the progress towards…! ( "Where religion ends, spirituality begins, where spirituality ends, reality begins, where reality ends, real bliss begins, what happens beyond that is inexpressible" Babuji)
So there! That is it for today, I will return later on the "excesses due to the commercialization of the Mission, which were already taking place, in the very early 70's. "
Cyrille
Cyrille said…
Thanks Elodie for following up, sorry to give you this work!
Hello everyone I will try to answer each (comments) in order.
Elodie: "You say that you've already seen commercial excesses in the 70"
I understand the confusion, I was getting ready to respond to Alexis and about the same, to Dr KC Varadachari; I have at no time observed any financial abuses in India or in Europe;
-- Regarding India my opinion (fragmented) shall consist only of my two trips 79 and 81 where I went to Shahjahanpur and Udaipur and Bombay and during these periods nothing and no one asked us for anything, an amount was indicated and given as a donation for the day but it was more than modest, the books of Babuji were printed in the courtyard of his house, at his costs, and they were also sold at cost, Babuji forbade that money be spent unnecessarily and during these many trips across India, he traveled by train, in 3rd class (which no longer exists by the way). Several times, at the beginning of the mission he was asked to accept a sharing in the cost of food. He replied "how can I ask members of my family or my own children to pay (for food)!" He resigned himself to accept when the abhyasis, during the celebrations became more and more numerous. For info, during these celebrations most of the vegetables, rice, lentils were grown on his land, the ashram was also built on this land to the detriment of his own family; Now I have seen very little from the other regions and what was going on but all my Indian friends (who also were careful not to join Chari) have never mentioned any financial abuses before his (Babuji) departure in 83 (which is not to say that there could not have been any) but all groups that have continued and continue to gather in his name gain from it no assets nor fortunes… many times older preceptors came to France and none of them have ever benefited, neither here nor at home in India. I have regularly returned to India to meet Ragavendra Rao Raïchur, Ramachandra Reddy from Cuddapah, Narayan Rao of Gulbarga, Kastury in Lucknow, Vital Rao in Bangalore, all full preceptors of Babuji and faithful to him only, none of them lives or has lived by drawing advantage from their status or notoriety, putting forward no one but their Master Babuji. Just an anecdote about Babuji's car (still visible in Shahjahanpur), a Southern Abhyasi wanted to one day to offer a car ot Babuji who had always refused to buy one, but because of his advancing age everyone advised him to accept, he remained adamant, the person then asked Babuji permission to park "for convenience" this car at the Ashram and he could use it if necessary, Babuji eventually accepted. The "icing on the cake" the license plate, with three letters and four numbers is GAG 8078. (photo available)
As far as France is concerned, from 77 to 83 I have never contributed to any "party", no collections for future gifts to Babuji (he would have hastened to refuse, I suppose), the first translations of Babuji books were made voluntarily and the prints were always sold almost at cost. I can say that during all these years I never have witnessed any financial abuse.
Elodie: "For my part, I'd like to know if you are still numerous, in these groups who have not followed Chariji, do you still meet with Sister Kastury or André Poray and if you make large gatherings, even if not on the scale of those organised by the Shri Ram Chandra Mission of Chariji. "
Yes and no, it depends on regions and compared to 83 and before and after there are no pictures! Lyon (where I live) has a large group and preceptors, Tours where I am going this Friday for a week-end meditation, in The Maritime Alps with some old and some new (abhyasis) who I see regularly, once a month (my family is still there), Paris, in the south west, Switzerland and a loyal group in Barcelona (Spain) that we meet regularly, 3 times per year, including Sanary in October where we have kept the habit of getting together.
I still see a Sister Kasturi (who is no longer very young) I'll be there this month of February after Basant, André Poray left us a few years ago (he would have been one hundred years old this year, I think) and a compilation of these letters with Babuji is being published.
4d-Don "The only evidence that we had of this period was that of Michael, who was a preceptor in the Boston area, USA, and had known Andre Poray in France ... "
I probably must have met him, but I can not put a face to the name, I remember clearly a Jim, a red-headed American from whom, I have had no news for some time.
Alexis: "What happened in France at the death of Babuji? Is it at that time that Poray received his letter of dismissal or before? "
After the death of Babuji all preceptors received a letter from their Chari intimating the order to recognize him as the Chairman of the Mission failing which they would no longer be preceptors of the mission (and could no longer TRANSMIT (more followed later)). It was only later that he proclaimed himself successor of Babuji! What heresy! Babuji said, "If I lived even one minute as the Master I would fall immediately! "Babuji never, even at the request of some, facing the drifting of a precptor, dismissed anyone:" I am here to make preceptors not for undoing them, but if a preceptor has become lost, the transmission would stop of itself."
Alexis: "I find it quite surprising that your group of meditators are still, 30 years later, unconnected with the SRCM of Chari, particularly in the Var where the preceptors of Chari are in power. "
I see nothing surprising in that, I met last year at Fatehgarh the grandson of Lalaji with which we meditated, some groups have continued to follow Lalaji without interfering with Sahaj Marg, there is not only "One way to reach the summit of the mountain". Now to me, what Chari advocates has radically nothing to do with the "simple, natural Path" of Babuji.
Alexis: "I think notably of an old "full preceptor from Sanary, buddy as a pig with Chari ... "
? I do not see anyone else than Andre Poray as full preceptor at Sanary, he was, is is true, friend with Chari, but several mail exchanges after the physical departurel of Babuji attest to the warnings concerning the turn that the Mission was taking, and very quickly, he stepped back, and broke his solidarity with the mission. It was the same for virtually all the full preceptors of Babuji.
Alexis: "Did André Poray not become involved in Buddhism? He gives that impression at his conferences. What happened to Babuji in there? "
Andre always had a weakness for the Tibetan cause and sponsored a number of centres, we were even allowed to meet Kalourimpoché in Nice where we did a meditation with him, led by Andre. At the end of this meditation, the Lama asked to see the photo of Babuji and said to the great surprise of some "small monks" being ignored at his sides "this is a great personality, this is a very good path, continue!" They were both open, one and the other, but if in some of these conferences he spoke of Tibetans or compared the different techniques or religions, he has always remained faithful to his master that he placed in front of everything. Babuji never asked (us) to renounce anything, neither interest nor passion, or religion. André was simply human, and even at the end of his life we were not eager to hear him speak of Borobudur temples or Egyptians or Tibetans I can assure you that when he stood in front of you, over 90 years old, you had the impression of being at the foot of Babuji (once we made abstraction of the physical of course). He, in my opinion, has always been a faithful tool in the hands of his master, neither more nor less.
Thank you all for your interest
Cyrille
Alexis said:
Alexis said ...
Cyrille
Thank you for answering our questions. This suggests some new ones ... including some on the Indian full preceptors. Who are they? How are they still alive? Have they created movements in India? Have they suffered attacks from the Chari's henchmen, as the children of Babuji? For the grandson of Lalaji and Kasturi, do they still have links with Chari (are they preceptors of the SRCM)? And in Europe, how many preceptors do you have? Are all old and trained by Babuji?
Cri-cri said:
Hello Cyrille,
You say "financial abuse" but Varadachari is not talking about that. He speaks of "commercialization of the mission", which is not limited to the financial aspect, but concerns the transformation of the mission and the teaching into a product used for substantive trade. His analysis is more subtle and probably references to the ideas of some megalomaniacs.
You joined the Mission in 77 when you started your practice under the guidance of Babuji. You have therefore been able to observe or hear others speak for 6 years before the death of Babuji, then...
Already, some information that you give us brings a lot of light on the history (of SRCM), very unclear for those who are in the SRCMtm. For example, that Babuji used its own land to build the ashram of Shahjahanpur and to cultivate the food he gave his abhyasis speaks volumes about his attitude, and reveals why Chari had to seize the ashram in a (alleged) criminal way. After this (alleged) act, he has demonstrated that he is an indisputable scum of the worst kind.
In France, one is familiar with scum, but kosher karshers?? (cannot translate). Unfortunately, it does not work at the top of gangrenous pyramids.
"not putting forward their Master Babuji"
The idolatrous. Do they love god as much?
"Babuji eventually accept"
Or how a master, human though he be, can be manipulated by his worshippers.
In my debut at the mission in the late 80s and early 90s, the spirit remained the same: Sales at low cost (rather than cost, there was already some testing of the waters with timid feet, to see how far they could push the cap), cost stays at extremely reasonable prices, very little administration, and as far as contributions and party member cards and/or membership number ... I do not remember. Then the infernal mazie machine started and today, it is "anything goes". There is no reason that this will not continue even further, because Chari has manipulated his followers so that he made them all "cracked". The SRCMtm is a collective delirium.
"Shri Ram Chandra Mission Chariji"
Élodie, you can say the Sri Rajagopala Chari Mission :-) because that is what it is.
"a compilation of these letters with Babuji is being done"
Cyrille, I do not know if in your group you did as the group of Narayana. All their literature is put online for free. If you have such a site, perhaps you would want to give us the address. Thanks to the Internet, books can be released for free, toll-free printing.
"All thepreceptors have received a letter from their Chari intimant order to recognize it as the chairman of the mission failing which they would no longer tutor of the mission"
The little tyrant at work. But what a crook, the more I learn about this character, the more I am repulsed by this piece of garbage. Who does he work for?
"and could no longer pass (this followed later)"
Of course, this is terrorism. Remember, he (Chari) admitted that when Babuji died, he believed that the transmission would not work anymore. :-) That is to say, if he had any understanding of the spiritual dimension at all. That is like saying that he was doubtful of his level of realization, and that is like saying that he had some guilt on his conscience. In short, a small confession that speaks volumes.
"It was only later that he proclaimed himself successor of Babuji"
And today, Babuji is relegated to second place, and more. Lalaji, is in oblivion. (Lalaji had a) Miraculous birth, and descended from heaven to bring "transmission" to humankind then "ciao" (bye). I just simplified.
"I am here to make preceptor not to undo them, but if a preceptor has become lost, the transmission would cease of itself. "
Possible, that is quite mechanical, but ignorant as we are, we are making of it something magical. If we knew, we would probably not fall any more under the thumbs of crooks. Shame on them to exploit human ignorance.
"It was the same for virtually all full preceptors by Babuji."
But Cyrille, you do not understand! You, like me, like all these people, we had a crisis of ego and have plummeted, as I have been told, and been excluded by our super-ego. :-) In addition to being an impostor, he is a manipulator and a thief, he is a liar. What divine qualities in this remarkable person!!
"Babuji never asked (anyone) to renounce anything, neither interest, nor passion, nor religion."
Just as Lalaji, and unlike Chari. They first practiced Sufism, whose goal is not to cut the individual from his life and his environment, but to integrate him/her fully and more and more openly, to infinity. The spiritual path is not the sectarian path of power and fear that Chari follows.
Hoping to read you again.
Cricri
Elodie said:
Martin
Cyrille said ...
Whaouu…! I, who usually do not write! and type with 2 fingers, finally! re Hello everyone
I will try to reply to everyone!
Reply to Alexis: Full preceptors! by Babuji and faithful alone:
-- Ragavendra Rao of Raïchur passed away 3 years ago, he was a beacon of persons for all those in India and Europe who have remained faithful to Babuji and alone (even if the marks of deference and respect in India are very different from ours and even shocking (Babuji did not like this cultom of touching his feet and pushed off all attempts by those wanting to kiss (his feet) The Ashram (the building) of Raïchur was the last place taken over by the people of Chari and that with arms and in complicity with the police.
--Ramachandra Reddy from Cuddapah also died last year.
--Narayan Rao east of Gulbarga still in good health, (idiom: "steady foot & good eyes") and still travelst to different centres in India, but his age (87ans) did not allow him to come and see us this year.
--Vital Rao in Bangalore is still among us and I must go and see him at the beginning of the year.
--Sister Kastury of Lucknow withdrew ages ago from Chari's Mission, and with a public speech that won her a lot of trouble, the grandson of Lalaji has also withdrawn and has clearly explained it to us last year. But where Chari plays with finesse, is in keeping them on the list preceptors of the mission, despite many requests by Kasturi to no longer appear on the rosters of the SRCM… in India she has had, and still has such a impact (seing what Babuji wrote and said about her) that he (Chari) can not cut such an image (the defection of Ragavendra Rao, André Poray and these all these many preceptors had raised many questions at the time)
--Dr Rao Shiam of Gulbarga has taken a step back, I must also meet him soon.
--Vital Rao Bangalore affectionately nicknamed the Judge (a former judge of the high court of Bangalore) he is still of this world even if the weight of years (-85) is keenly felt, he stills chairs some satsangs and some large annual meetings.
--Dr Srivastava has taken a slightly seperate path, wanting to "mix" science and spirituality, we have explained our respectfully disagreement, but I keep a lot of friendship for him. He has at one time assumed the administrative burden and the presidency of the mission that was dissenting from that of Chari, (before he (Chari) appropriated the name and placed a "tm" (Trade Mark) on it) during this period he "created" new preceptors. Apart from Sister Kastury who was the only one to my knowledge to have "made" preceptors under the responsibility and instructions of Babuji (letters and many testimonies corroborate this) and continues to do so very rarely, none of full preceptors cited above did so.
None of them, in my opinion, has in the proper (or dirty) sense of the term created a truly "real movement". The meetings, including the Basant or the anniversary of the mission always gathers several hundred people in large centres (hyderabad, bangalore, lucknow, etc…) in a collegial and more or less informal organizing of the celebrations.
As for the children Babuji, that is yet another case; Servech the youngest, (the other two are no longer of this world) is the only remaining son, and he lives in Shahjahanpur, he - joined Chari (who made him a preceptor, him and his wife!) despite his position against him (Chari) at first, but he allows all abhyasis coming on behalf of his father to come to Shahjahanpur, Chariiste or not (I went last year for the marriage of his son that I knew since he was small, and went back with a small group a month later). He also asked me to direct satsangs on the spot in the house of his father.
Ahhh! the PRECEPTEURS!! What errors were committed…… and ideas received.
I will try to give you my point of view while trying to respect what Babuji said. He said: "being a preceptor is a duty and not an honorific title or any indication of one's spiritual level" I could get a donkey to do the job (gag) "(I will research the precise text).
But to give you an idea: if you're thirsty, you go to the tap to quench your thirst, but what removes the thirst, the tap or the water? even in the absence of the tap water always finds a way to pass.
The preceptor is a tool and the more the tool is forgetful of its "small person" the more the transmission is efficacious. Babuji: "the tutor is primarily an abhyasi, he is only a preceptor during the time of transmission, he must lead by example." The valve must be as clean as possible. One day I received this answer: "be His instrument and keep the instrument clean" a rusty tap stains the water, water is always water but what is added consciously or unconsciously makes it difficult to be assimilated and/or unfit for consumption.
Many people, and that from the outset desired this title! even up to writing to him about this and all those who were waiting never became preceptors, Babuji saving them from a fatal outbreak of ego. I learned after his (Babuji) departure that they had almost all been made preceptors by Chari (what lack of discernment !!!). And even preceptors made by Babuji have fallen into the trap of ego, but must we cast stones at them?: who is responsible (there is no guilty party) the abhyasi preceptor whose pride swells or the abhyasi who adulates and glorifies the preceptor thereby giving him the feeling of being important.
The same goes for Chari, I feel, in some (I had some too), a lot of anger towards him, do they resent having been fooled by him or do they resent themselves for having allowed themselves to be fooled?
Reply to Anonymous: (cri-cri)
"not putting anyone above them but their Master, Babuji"
The idolatrous. Do they Love God as much?
If one considers Babuji under its physical aspect and that we put that above, then yes, there may be, and there have been idolatry! But if you see and "attach yourself" to the the hand of God in him, so there you place the Divine above; one day an abhyasi came to Babuji and said: "Teacher! you must be content, several thousand people will be there for Basant". Babuji: "yes, but how many are genuine abhyasis, "they come to see me but leave without having seen me!" He did not speak of his physical form, but the perception of the divine dimension that people did not see, recreating a new pious image and ritualising the technique.
Ask yourself this question: why have so many people followed Chari after the death of Babuji?
All were in a form of emotional dependence on the Master, then taken as the idealized father. They found what he sought: a guru (goure where?) Alive! Hence the creation of a myth, necessary for a spiritual advancement, a Living Master (Master living) but Babuji was not "dead" transmission is always available to anyone who wants to experience it, and that the new abhyasis I rub shoulders with, can tell you, even those like me who do not feel anything, they see the effects in their daily lives without being disconnected from reality, quite the contrary.
"Babuji eventually accept"
Or how a master, human, can be manipulated by its worshippers.
I'm not sure anyone could have manipulated Babuji, but in the case of this car, he never wanted to accept anything for himself, it became the car of the mission, which served not only for his displacements from home to the station or to the ashram, but for all seniors or physically challenged, that needed to be picked up at the station (there were no taxis at the time, nothing but bicycle rikshaws).
Cyrille, I do not know if in "your" group ...
Beware of words that are used: "YOUR" : Possessive adjective. Babuji never said MY abhyasis and Preceptors, those who cavalierly use "my group, my work, my centre" run towards a chronic and pathological megalomania.
Letters with Babuji literature put online for free
The idea is not only ecological but completely fair, but we have never had a site, the setbacks with Chari's group have made us discreet. Now I am far from being a virtuoso on computers and any assistance would be welcome.
Reply to Elodie:
All the places you mention also home to large communities loyal to Chariji. Is there not a mixture of both, each contributor and the other not?
That is hihihi, there has never been any mixing, Chari's people flee from us like the plague, maybe they are considering a flat "ban" from meeting with us for fear of learning some truths that are not always good to hear, much like the "prohibition" form visiting your dissident (web) sites. Also, having never made any recruitement, I myself have never sought to meet the abhyasis of Chari.
Has your group formalized itself, are there "leaders" with more charismatic personalities than others since the death of Mr Poray?
No leaders, but a few old abhyasis, and no formality at all.
About your preceptors, if they are not all aged because they were appointed by Babuji, who appoints new ones?
You have part of the answer above, but on April 77, I was 19 ½ years old, and many preceptors at the time were young, do not bury us too fast ;-)
Well, I leave you, your friendly! (Curtis and Moore) the ancients will understand!! ;-)
Cyrille
Alexis Said:
Cyrille @
Passionnant! (Passionately Interesting)
You speak very little of the descendants of Babuji, however navneet kumar saxena is in court with Chari and his father umesh chandra Saxena was also before him… Prakash also opposed Chari, as his son Charad: what has become of them now?
You do not say a word about KC narayana, the son of Dr. Varadachari, who created his own movement. Are you in contact? According Narayana, Kasturi was initially in favor of Chari and against umesh chandra Saxena. SA Sarnad re-"turned his coat" in a few weeks.
The son of Dinesh Kumar Saxena (grandson of Lalaji) follows Chari faithfully, it is true that he "bosses" in a company headed by a close contact of Chari…
Dr. Srivastava has established an association in Belgium: Shri Ram Chandra Memorial International Society Promoting Spirituality As A Science (INSPSAAS), do you know this?
Suresh Kumar Makam, a disciple of raghavendra rao, created a blog, do you know this?
"Pandit ji, a disciple of Kasturi has also created a blog. Do you have the speech where she "burns" Chari?
André poray has toured with Dr. Hans gangloff. Did you know?
Are there still other major personalities (full precepteurs) in France, Europe and India? Did donald sabourin belong to this group?
Cyrille Said: (Sept 19, 2008)
Bonsoir Elodie, here is a short "mumble" , (Yes to a hand (help) with the computer! We will remember that when I'm back!)
Cyrille: Response to Alexis:
Umesh had also self-proclaimed himself successor to his father, prohibiting anyone access to the ashram including his brother Servech !!!!!!!!,
Prakash's wife lives in Lucknow and regularly goes to satsangs at Kasturi.
I do not know the son of Dr. Varadachari me but if you communicate these details I will be in India February March!
For Dinesh Kumar and Dr Shrivastava you have my answer.
I have not seen Suresh's blog yet, if he is the same person which I think he is, then his is in Bangalore, and is a businessman! and I will see during this next trip.
I have, I think, crossed Pandit ji in Lucknow, Kasturi explained to me what had transpired and talked to me about this speech.
Dr. Hans Gangloff has joined Chari, he was nice and I had a good visit with him in Munich during the visit of Babuji, there! that's good!
Donald Sabourin: unknown to this battalion!
Cyrille: Response to Martin:
What makes the difference between (different) "transmissions"? Is it the sender or the receiver? Is it quantitatively and/or quality?
Both my Captain!
Starting from the postualte based on an assumption that the person (Babuji) would have gone back to the source, the origin, bouma!….! He would then transmit from there an energy X, relayed by preceptors. I keep my metaphor of "water and tap". If the receiver (abhyasi) considers or did not see anything but the human transmitter, he/she then restricts him/herself the flow and the water quality. It will be likewise if he/she deifies, "idolizes", "superman-izes"… he/she adds his/her own color!
"But if a preceptor should get lost, transmission would stop of itself. "
Should we understand that the issuer has really "hands on" this transmission?
Now ditto for the abhyasi and/or the preceptor, if the faucet is rusty the water flow will stop by itself.
The analysis is only worth what it is worth.
I will come back in greater detail on the particulars of the various feelings in different transmissions if you wish, but I leave tomorrow for a long weekend, and I can't respond until Monday evening, Good weekend to you all.
Cyrille's reply to Cri-cri
PS: Mazi? never heard of that... can you light my lantern?
Cyrille
Cri-Cri said:
mazi = World Socialism. (World in French= Monde)
Neologism in parallel to the Nazi or "National Socialism"
The same kind of underworld but worse than that because it is everywhere.
And I will stop there because this blog is for another matter.
Cricri
Cyril said ...:
Bonjour to all
After a superb weekend of meditation in Tours here I am more fit than ever!
I'll try to answer you!
4d-Don and Alexis:
- Questions about the family of Babuji ....
During his lifetime I have never seen any of his children attend a satsang (and all the old Indians will confirm that for you), which surprised many Europeans, they did not seem concerned with spiritual things, at the death of their father things changed, specially for Umesh the self- proclaimed Master and the spiritual successor of his father. (The king is dead long live the king!)
Going as far as to create and build a school and clinic in the courtyard of the Ashram!! and refusing access to anyone who did not recognize him as such!! (Does this not remind you of something!) (I myself was refused entry three years ago along with an Indian abhyasi, a childhood friend of the son and daughters of Babuji, by the son of Umesh who was there and did not even agree to receive us, despite a letter of introduction by a very old preceptor, well known to his own father!)
Now at least anyone who wants access to the house of Babuji, etc ... his room. including theAshram, can come without swearing an oath of obedience to whomever or whatever. (at last).
- Attacks, poisoning ...
I would not want to go into an endless questioning or to give "body" to things of the past for which I have no answer and may never have: "Who killed who? Who tried what? For me, and I repeat Babuji is always present and anyone who wants to experience him is welcome!
Let me explain:
What is important is the here and now, how to be ... more in line with what I feel and what I believe, while remaining open (and wanting) to any new experience that would corroborate, confirm, these feelings and these beliefs or deny or amend them. I can tell you about him, you talk about my experience but I do not want to fuel the controversy and thus play into Chari's game. Babuji was not a criticizing person, I just want to follow his example, he was of such simplicity and humility.
Elodie
It seems to me that Dr. Varadachari concerned with Babuji a search for quantity rather than quality ...
Alexis
... Proselytizing.
I confirmed and better understood the "concerns" of Dr Varadachari:
Proselytizing is a natural process from the desire to share and is difficult to ignore. If this applies to adepts of the "hot apple pie", this has little consequence except for an indigestion ;-)! But applied to a creed, dogma, religion ... we know the "driftings over the centuries !!!».
Babuji always said: 'I'm not there to make abhyasis, but to make Masters." "Sahaj is not for everyone" but he also said that Sahaj Marg was made for humanity. There is not contradiction there, I think!
If I took the metaphor of the mountain that humans seek to climb to the summit, representing God.
Religions are the prerogative of all and are in the plains.
Sects and "gurus" of all kinds are in the foothills.
The various schools of spirituality would be a bit higher still.
Reality and Real Beatitude respectively would be increasingly closer to the Goal.
Throughout the climb from "base camps" there are on the road guards as well as shelter and Sherpa guides to take you, or to chart the path to the next camp. All and all levels have their utility in the big game of Life! And kindergarten teachers have neither more nor less value or merit as the lecturer at the University. The kindergarten, primary school, secondary school and so on are almost necessary stages.
The Sahaj marg is not the only way nor the best way to reach spiritually! (it is for me and I experience it with more discerning and objectivity as possible, but I am just one individual among billions of others.)
The researcher, journeyer, can stop along the way, speed up, slow down, he is free to remain entangled even in the context of strong individual base camps. We can only smile and show that we continue the path we set.
In my opinion (Babuji and many others have said the same thing) the only responsibility we have is to ourselves, to continue to grow and the more we progess, the more the divine flame in our heart will shine (without applying any human will) it will lead inexorably to other researchers, creating a stream of increasing power.
I said that many old abhyasis have after the departure of the physical Babuji, felt the transmission even more , let me add that more and more in recent years as our abhyasis brothers and sisters progress, the more we experience the power of this omnipresent energy.
The transmission of this energy is not an exclusive TM of Sahaj marg!
A hiker, after an exhausting march, who comes before a mountain lake, experiences receiving this energy of nature. Two people who meet and who are the object of "love at first sight" also experience a transfer, an exchange of energy.
Meeting Mother Teresa or sister Emmanuelle one is permitted or allowed to have this experience.
Leaning on a hundred-year old tree, one can obtain energy from the earth.
Now comes the question of determining qualify, quantifying the vibrational levels of these various energies and in the absence of sufficient mechanical devices that to my knowledge are not available at this time, is problematic.
Here is my opinion:
Already, any plant, animal or person radiates its own energy, this can be photographed (Kirlian effect). Every human being as long as it takes conscience can "transmit" his/her own energy (magnetic, healers, Reiki, voodoo, the list goes on ... I overlook better examples). The more people "elevate themselves" and thereby increasing their capacity the more the currant will appear or be perceived as strong. But again, a strong current of transmission is not necessarily a guarantee of quality. So how does one seperate things?
The transmitter (person) should be aligned with what he/she is supposed to be (relationship between words and deeds) and make people want to know them better.
the more transmission comes from a more advanced level, it should be seen as subtle, light and even if it seems powerful, the state that results should be subtle and light. Babuji would ask, after meditation to stay a few minutes in silence to "ruminate" our state, feel the difference before and after. If this was done, it prevents states of heaviness, headache ... taken for normal or is explained by a poor job by the abhyasi (guilt).
Gradually the practice should perceive some changes in himself, without drastic sacrifice, without mortification of self and without guilt. Babuji has never banned, he advised, suggested, he often told a "small" story, a metaphor that "fit to a tee", the person for whom it was intended.
Never discernment, critical thinking, or attention should disappear from the spirit of the abhyasi, Babuji: "I do not want to make sheep, but lions! "I'm not there to make abhyasis butMasters! ".
Last thing: the state felt, ruminated on (subtle, light, quiet) after the meditation should be a state of resource, to be kept as long as possible or to find the vibration of Divine love and recharge oneself at all times of day, it is just that, constant remembrance (real sense of purpose or practice). While knowing, and keeping in mind that this is transitory (do not fasten oneself thereto), and many other states remain to be discovered.
Well, I leave you, hoping to read you.
Cyrille
Tuesday September 23, 05:07:00 PM
You say "financial abuse" but Varadachari is not talking about that. He speaks of "commercialization of the mission", which is not limited to the financial aspect, but concerns the transformation of the mission and the teaching into a product used for substantive trade. His analysis is more subtle and probably references to the ideas of some megalomaniacs.
You joined the Mission in 77 when you started your practice under the guidance of Babuji. You have therefore been able to observe or hear others speak for 6 years before the death of Babuji, then...
Already, some information that you give us brings a lot of light on the history (of SRCM), very unclear for those who are in the SRCMtm. For example, that Babuji used its own land to build the ashram of Shahjahanpur and to cultivate the food he gave his abhyasis speaks volumes about his attitude, and reveals why Chari had to seize the ashram in a (alleged) criminal way. After this (alleged) act, he has demonstrated that he is an indisputable scum of the worst kind.
In France, one is familiar with scum, but kosher karshers?? (cannot translate). Unfortunately, it does not work at the top of gangrenous pyramids.
"not putting forward their Master Babuji"
The idolatrous. Do they love god as much?
"Babuji eventually accept"
Or how a master, human though he be, can be manipulated by his worshippers.
In my debut at the mission in the late 80s and early 90s, the spirit remained the same: Sales at low cost (rather than cost, there was already some testing of the waters with timid feet, to see how far they could push the cap), cost stays at extremely reasonable prices, very little administration, and as far as contributions and party member cards and/or membership number ... I do not remember. Then the infernal mazie machine started and today, it is "anything goes". There is no reason that this will not continue even further, because Chari has manipulated his followers so that he made them all "cracked". The SRCMtm is a collective delirium.
"Shri Ram Chandra Mission Chariji"
Élodie, you can say the Sri Rajagopala Chari Mission :-) because that is what it is.
"a compilation of these letters with Babuji is being done"
Cyrille, I do not know if in your group you did as the group of Narayana. All their literature is put online for free. If you have such a site, perhaps you would want to give us the address. Thanks to the Internet, books can be released for free, toll-free printing.
"All thepreceptors have received a letter from their Chari intimant order to recognize it as the chairman of the mission failing which they would no longer tutor of the mission"
The little tyrant at work. But what a crook, the more I learn about this character, the more I am repulsed by this piece of garbage. Who does he work for?
"and could no longer pass (this followed later)"
Of course, this is terrorism. Remember, he (Chari) admitted that when Babuji died, he believed that the transmission would not work anymore. :-) That is to say, if he had any understanding of the spiritual dimension at all. That is like saying that he was doubtful of his level of realization, and that is like saying that he had some guilt on his conscience. In short, a small confession that speaks volumes.
"It was only later that he proclaimed himself successor of Babuji"
And today, Babuji is relegated to second place, and more. Lalaji, is in oblivion. (Lalaji had a) Miraculous birth, and descended from heaven to bring "transmission" to humankind then "ciao" (bye). I just simplified.
"I am here to make preceptor not to undo them, but if a preceptor has become lost, the transmission would cease of itself. "
Possible, that is quite mechanical, but ignorant as we are, we are making of it something magical. If we knew, we would probably not fall any more under the thumbs of crooks. Shame on them to exploit human ignorance.
"It was the same for virtually all full preceptors by Babuji."
But Cyrille, you do not understand! You, like me, like all these people, we had a crisis of ego and have plummeted, as I have been told, and been excluded by our super-ego. :-) In addition to being an impostor, he is a manipulator and a thief, he is a liar. What divine qualities in this remarkable person!!
"Babuji never asked (anyone) to renounce anything, neither interest, nor passion, nor religion."
Just as Lalaji, and unlike Chari. They first practiced Sufism, whose goal is not to cut the individual from his life and his environment, but to integrate him/her fully and more and more openly, to infinity. The spiritual path is not the sectarian path of power and fear that Chari follows.
Hoping to read you again.
Cricri
Elodie said:
Hello Cyrille,
Thank you for your prompt response, which has already provoked reactions. To remarks by Cricri Alexis, I add my own.
It seems to me that Dr. Varadachari was concerned with Babuji about a search for quantity to the detriment of quality, he felt especially concerning the number of practitioners but perhaps also the risk that spirituality would drown in the material aspects that were becoming more and more important with the number of followers. I can not remember having heard of commercial abuses or of the marketing of the Mission (unless if it was about the number of people (in the Mission)).
I am surprised to discover so many groups loyal to Babuji of which I had never heard. All the places you mention are also home to large communities that are faithful to Chariji. Is there not a mixture of both, some contributors and some not?
Has your group formalized itself, do you have "leaders" or personalities that are more charismatic than others since the death of Mr Poray? And to extend the remark by Alexis on your preceptors, if not all very aged because they were appointed by Babuji, who appoints new ones?
Finally, where can we get a compilation of the letters exchanged between Andre Poray and Babuji?
Very affectionately,
Elodie
Martin said:
Good evening all, and Cyrille.
Your testimony is relevant with clarity and simplicity.
It takes us back to an important issue; what makes the difference between "transmissions"? Is it the sender or the receiver? Is it quantitative and/or quality?
I could hear in your account, the testimony of an experienced meditator (not an adherent of SCRM), confiding that she recognized that the transmission quality was exceptional!
When Babuji said, "I am here to make preceptors not to un-make them, but if a preceptor had become lost, the transmission would stop of itself. " Should we understand that the transmitter was really the "hands-on" of this transmission?
If so, how can the followers of Chari feel a transmission "HD" if the antagonism between Babuji and Chari is well proven? The quality of the transmission could be independent of the level of spiritual realization of the Master!
Seen from outside this process seems more and more crazy.
The testimony of Cyrille underscores the distinction between Babuji and Chari, beside the fact that the latter continues to claim his spiritual lineage from Babuji, and that such a deception would not hinder the quality of "his" transmission?
Or is it not simply sufficient to create the "myth" so as to open one's own frequency, and the abyasis do the rest….
It would be very interesting to hear the views of abyasis who would have known and practiced with both, is this still possible?
The first key to a possible awakening, in relation to all these abuses, is certainly in understanding these mysterious transmissions.
The second is also in setting the absence of a clear "spiritual" link between Babuji and Chari, often mentioned but not synthesized enough.
Without "AOC" the latter would probably be significantly weakened…
Thank you for your prompt response, which has already provoked reactions. To remarks by Cricri Alexis, I add my own.
It seems to me that Dr. Varadachari was concerned with Babuji about a search for quantity to the detriment of quality, he felt especially concerning the number of practitioners but perhaps also the risk that spirituality would drown in the material aspects that were becoming more and more important with the number of followers. I can not remember having heard of commercial abuses or of the marketing of the Mission (unless if it was about the number of people (in the Mission)).
I am surprised to discover so many groups loyal to Babuji of which I had never heard. All the places you mention are also home to large communities that are faithful to Chariji. Is there not a mixture of both, some contributors and some not?
Has your group formalized itself, do you have "leaders" or personalities that are more charismatic than others since the death of Mr Poray? And to extend the remark by Alexis on your preceptors, if not all very aged because they were appointed by Babuji, who appoints new ones?
Finally, where can we get a compilation of the letters exchanged between Andre Poray and Babuji?
Very affectionately,
Elodie
Martin said:
Good evening all, and Cyrille.
Your testimony is relevant with clarity and simplicity.
It takes us back to an important issue; what makes the difference between "transmissions"? Is it the sender or the receiver? Is it quantitative and/or quality?
I could hear in your account, the testimony of an experienced meditator (not an adherent of SCRM), confiding that she recognized that the transmission quality was exceptional!
When Babuji said, "I am here to make preceptors not to un-make them, but if a preceptor had become lost, the transmission would stop of itself. " Should we understand that the transmitter was really the "hands-on" of this transmission?
If so, how can the followers of Chari feel a transmission "HD" if the antagonism between Babuji and Chari is well proven? The quality of the transmission could be independent of the level of spiritual realization of the Master!
Seen from outside this process seems more and more crazy.
The testimony of Cyrille underscores the distinction between Babuji and Chari, beside the fact that the latter continues to claim his spiritual lineage from Babuji, and that such a deception would not hinder the quality of "his" transmission?
Or is it not simply sufficient to create the "myth" so as to open one's own frequency, and the abyasis do the rest….
It would be very interesting to hear the views of abyasis who would have known and practiced with both, is this still possible?
The first key to a possible awakening, in relation to all these abuses, is certainly in understanding these mysterious transmissions.
The second is also in setting the absence of a clear "spiritual" link between Babuji and Chari, often mentioned but not synthesized enough.
Without "AOC" the latter would probably be significantly weakened…
Martin
Cyrille said ...
Whaouu…! I, who usually do not write! and type with 2 fingers, finally! re Hello everyone
I will try to reply to everyone!
Reply to Alexis: Full preceptors! by Babuji and faithful alone:
-- Ragavendra Rao of Raïchur passed away 3 years ago, he was a beacon of persons for all those in India and Europe who have remained faithful to Babuji and alone (even if the marks of deference and respect in India are very different from ours and even shocking (Babuji did not like this cultom of touching his feet and pushed off all attempts by those wanting to kiss (his feet) The Ashram (the building) of Raïchur was the last place taken over by the people of Chari and that with arms and in complicity with the police.
--Ramachandra Reddy from Cuddapah also died last year.
--Narayan Rao east of Gulbarga still in good health, (idiom: "steady foot & good eyes") and still travelst to different centres in India, but his age (87ans) did not allow him to come and see us this year.
--Vital Rao in Bangalore is still among us and I must go and see him at the beginning of the year.
--Sister Kastury of Lucknow withdrew ages ago from Chari's Mission, and with a public speech that won her a lot of trouble, the grandson of Lalaji has also withdrawn and has clearly explained it to us last year. But where Chari plays with finesse, is in keeping them on the list preceptors of the mission, despite many requests by Kasturi to no longer appear on the rosters of the SRCM… in India she has had, and still has such a impact (seing what Babuji wrote and said about her) that he (Chari) can not cut such an image (the defection of Ragavendra Rao, André Poray and these all these many preceptors had raised many questions at the time)
--Dr Rao Shiam of Gulbarga has taken a step back, I must also meet him soon.
--Vital Rao Bangalore affectionately nicknamed the Judge (a former judge of the high court of Bangalore) he is still of this world even if the weight of years (-85) is keenly felt, he stills chairs some satsangs and some large annual meetings.
--Dr Srivastava has taken a slightly seperate path, wanting to "mix" science and spirituality, we have explained our respectfully disagreement, but I keep a lot of friendship for him. He has at one time assumed the administrative burden and the presidency of the mission that was dissenting from that of Chari, (before he (Chari) appropriated the name and placed a "tm" (Trade Mark) on it) during this period he "created" new preceptors. Apart from Sister Kastury who was the only one to my knowledge to have "made" preceptors under the responsibility and instructions of Babuji (letters and many testimonies corroborate this) and continues to do so very rarely, none of full preceptors cited above did so.
None of them, in my opinion, has in the proper (or dirty) sense of the term created a truly "real movement". The meetings, including the Basant or the anniversary of the mission always gathers several hundred people in large centres (hyderabad, bangalore, lucknow, etc…) in a collegial and more or less informal organizing of the celebrations.
As for the children Babuji, that is yet another case; Servech the youngest, (the other two are no longer of this world) is the only remaining son, and he lives in Shahjahanpur, he - joined Chari (who made him a preceptor, him and his wife!) despite his position against him (Chari) at first, but he allows all abhyasis coming on behalf of his father to come to Shahjahanpur, Chariiste or not (I went last year for the marriage of his son that I knew since he was small, and went back with a small group a month later). He also asked me to direct satsangs on the spot in the house of his father.
Ahhh! the PRECEPTEURS!! What errors were committed…… and ideas received.
I will try to give you my point of view while trying to respect what Babuji said. He said: "being a preceptor is a duty and not an honorific title or any indication of one's spiritual level" I could get a donkey to do the job (gag) "(I will research the precise text).
But to give you an idea: if you're thirsty, you go to the tap to quench your thirst, but what removes the thirst, the tap or the water? even in the absence of the tap water always finds a way to pass.
The preceptor is a tool and the more the tool is forgetful of its "small person" the more the transmission is efficacious. Babuji: "the tutor is primarily an abhyasi, he is only a preceptor during the time of transmission, he must lead by example." The valve must be as clean as possible. One day I received this answer: "be His instrument and keep the instrument clean" a rusty tap stains the water, water is always water but what is added consciously or unconsciously makes it difficult to be assimilated and/or unfit for consumption.
Many people, and that from the outset desired this title! even up to writing to him about this and all those who were waiting never became preceptors, Babuji saving them from a fatal outbreak of ego. I learned after his (Babuji) departure that they had almost all been made preceptors by Chari (what lack of discernment !!!). And even preceptors made by Babuji have fallen into the trap of ego, but must we cast stones at them?: who is responsible (there is no guilty party) the abhyasi preceptor whose pride swells or the abhyasi who adulates and glorifies the preceptor thereby giving him the feeling of being important.
The same goes for Chari, I feel, in some (I had some too), a lot of anger towards him, do they resent having been fooled by him or do they resent themselves for having allowed themselves to be fooled?
Reply to Anonymous: (cri-cri)
"not putting anyone above them but their Master, Babuji"
The idolatrous. Do they Love God as much?
If one considers Babuji under its physical aspect and that we put that above, then yes, there may be, and there have been idolatry! But if you see and "attach yourself" to the the hand of God in him, so there you place the Divine above; one day an abhyasi came to Babuji and said: "Teacher! you must be content, several thousand people will be there for Basant". Babuji: "yes, but how many are genuine abhyasis, "they come to see me but leave without having seen me!" He did not speak of his physical form, but the perception of the divine dimension that people did not see, recreating a new pious image and ritualising the technique.
Ask yourself this question: why have so many people followed Chari after the death of Babuji?
All were in a form of emotional dependence on the Master, then taken as the idealized father. They found what he sought: a guru (goure where?) Alive! Hence the creation of a myth, necessary for a spiritual advancement, a Living Master (Master living) but Babuji was not "dead" transmission is always available to anyone who wants to experience it, and that the new abhyasis I rub shoulders with, can tell you, even those like me who do not feel anything, they see the effects in their daily lives without being disconnected from reality, quite the contrary.
"Babuji eventually accept"
Or how a master, human, can be manipulated by its worshippers.
I'm not sure anyone could have manipulated Babuji, but in the case of this car, he never wanted to accept anything for himself, it became the car of the mission, which served not only for his displacements from home to the station or to the ashram, but for all seniors or physically challenged, that needed to be picked up at the station (there were no taxis at the time, nothing but bicycle rikshaws).
Cyrille, I do not know if in "your" group ...
Beware of words that are used: "YOUR" : Possessive adjective. Babuji never said MY abhyasis and Preceptors, those who cavalierly use "my group, my work, my centre" run towards a chronic and pathological megalomania.
Letters with Babuji literature put online for free
The idea is not only ecological but completely fair, but we have never had a site, the setbacks with Chari's group have made us discreet. Now I am far from being a virtuoso on computers and any assistance would be welcome.
Reply to Elodie:
All the places you mention also home to large communities loyal to Chariji. Is there not a mixture of both, each contributor and the other not?
That is hihihi, there has never been any mixing, Chari's people flee from us like the plague, maybe they are considering a flat "ban" from meeting with us for fear of learning some truths that are not always good to hear, much like the "prohibition" form visiting your dissident (web) sites. Also, having never made any recruitement, I myself have never sought to meet the abhyasis of Chari.
Has your group formalized itself, are there "leaders" with more charismatic personalities than others since the death of Mr Poray?
No leaders, but a few old abhyasis, and no formality at all.
About your preceptors, if they are not all aged because they were appointed by Babuji, who appoints new ones?
You have part of the answer above, but on April 77, I was 19 ½ years old, and many preceptors at the time were young, do not bury us too fast ;-)
Well, I leave you, your friendly! (Curtis and Moore) the ancients will understand!! ;-)
Cyrille
Alexis Said:
Cyrille @
Passionnant! (Passionately Interesting)
You speak very little of the descendants of Babuji, however navneet kumar saxena is in court with Chari and his father umesh chandra Saxena was also before him… Prakash also opposed Chari, as his son Charad: what has become of them now?
You do not say a word about KC narayana, the son of Dr. Varadachari, who created his own movement. Are you in contact? According Narayana, Kasturi was initially in favor of Chari and against umesh chandra Saxena. SA Sarnad re-"turned his coat" in a few weeks.
The son of Dinesh Kumar Saxena (grandson of Lalaji) follows Chari faithfully, it is true that he "bosses" in a company headed by a close contact of Chari…
Dr. Srivastava has established an association in Belgium: Shri Ram Chandra Memorial International Society Promoting Spirituality As A Science (INSPSAAS), do you know this?
Suresh Kumar Makam, a disciple of raghavendra rao, created a blog, do you know this?
"Pandit ji, a disciple of Kasturi has also created a blog. Do you have the speech where she "burns" Chari?
André poray has toured with Dr. Hans gangloff. Did you know?
Are there still other major personalities (full precepteurs) in France, Europe and India? Did donald sabourin belong to this group?
Cyrille Said: (Sept 19, 2008)
Bonsoir Elodie, here is a short "mumble" , (Yes to a hand (help) with the computer! We will remember that when I'm back!)
Cyrille: Response to Alexis:
Umesh had also self-proclaimed himself successor to his father, prohibiting anyone access to the ashram including his brother Servech !!!!!!!!,
Prakash's wife lives in Lucknow and regularly goes to satsangs at Kasturi.
I do not know the son of Dr. Varadachari me but if you communicate these details I will be in India February March!
For Dinesh Kumar and Dr Shrivastava you have my answer.
I have not seen Suresh's blog yet, if he is the same person which I think he is, then his is in Bangalore, and is a businessman! and I will see during this next trip.
I have, I think, crossed Pandit ji in Lucknow, Kasturi explained to me what had transpired and talked to me about this speech.
Dr. Hans Gangloff has joined Chari, he was nice and I had a good visit with him in Munich during the visit of Babuji, there! that's good!
Donald Sabourin: unknown to this battalion!
Cyrille: Response to Martin:
What makes the difference between (different) "transmissions"? Is it the sender or the receiver? Is it quantitatively and/or quality?
Both my Captain!
Starting from the postualte based on an assumption that the person (Babuji) would have gone back to the source, the origin, bouma!….! He would then transmit from there an energy X, relayed by preceptors. I keep my metaphor of "water and tap". If the receiver (abhyasi) considers or did not see anything but the human transmitter, he/she then restricts him/herself the flow and the water quality. It will be likewise if he/she deifies, "idolizes", "superman-izes"… he/she adds his/her own color!
"But if a preceptor should get lost, transmission would stop of itself. "
Should we understand that the issuer has really "hands on" this transmission?
Now ditto for the abhyasi and/or the preceptor, if the faucet is rusty the water flow will stop by itself.
The analysis is only worth what it is worth.
I will come back in greater detail on the particulars of the various feelings in different transmissions if you wish, but I leave tomorrow for a long weekend, and I can't respond until Monday evening, Good weekend to you all.
Cyrille's reply to Cri-cri
PS: Mazi? never heard of that... can you light my lantern?
Cyrille
Cri-Cri said:
mazi = World Socialism. (World in French= Monde)
Neologism in parallel to the Nazi or "National Socialism"
The same kind of underworld but worse than that because it is everywhere.
And I will stop there because this blog is for another matter.
Cricri
Cyril said ...:
Bonjour to all
After a superb weekend of meditation in Tours here I am more fit than ever!
I'll try to answer you!
4d-Don and Alexis:
- Questions about the family of Babuji ....
During his lifetime I have never seen any of his children attend a satsang (and all the old Indians will confirm that for you), which surprised many Europeans, they did not seem concerned with spiritual things, at the death of their father things changed, specially for Umesh the self- proclaimed Master and the spiritual successor of his father. (The king is dead long live the king!)
Going as far as to create and build a school and clinic in the courtyard of the Ashram!! and refusing access to anyone who did not recognize him as such!! (Does this not remind you of something!) (I myself was refused entry three years ago along with an Indian abhyasi, a childhood friend of the son and daughters of Babuji, by the son of Umesh who was there and did not even agree to receive us, despite a letter of introduction by a very old preceptor, well known to his own father!)
Now at least anyone who wants access to the house of Babuji, etc ... his room. including theAshram, can come without swearing an oath of obedience to whomever or whatever. (at last).
- Attacks, poisoning ...
I would not want to go into an endless questioning or to give "body" to things of the past for which I have no answer and may never have: "Who killed who? Who tried what? For me, and I repeat Babuji is always present and anyone who wants to experience him is welcome!
Let me explain:
What is important is the here and now, how to be ... more in line with what I feel and what I believe, while remaining open (and wanting) to any new experience that would corroborate, confirm, these feelings and these beliefs or deny or amend them. I can tell you about him, you talk about my experience but I do not want to fuel the controversy and thus play into Chari's game. Babuji was not a criticizing person, I just want to follow his example, he was of such simplicity and humility.
Elodie
It seems to me that Dr. Varadachari concerned with Babuji a search for quantity rather than quality ...
Alexis
... Proselytizing.
I confirmed and better understood the "concerns" of Dr Varadachari:
Proselytizing is a natural process from the desire to share and is difficult to ignore. If this applies to adepts of the "hot apple pie", this has little consequence except for an indigestion ;-)! But applied to a creed, dogma, religion ... we know the "driftings over the centuries !!!».
Babuji always said: 'I'm not there to make abhyasis, but to make Masters." "Sahaj is not for everyone" but he also said that Sahaj Marg was made for humanity. There is not contradiction there, I think!
If I took the metaphor of the mountain that humans seek to climb to the summit, representing God.
Religions are the prerogative of all and are in the plains.
Sects and "gurus" of all kinds are in the foothills.
The various schools of spirituality would be a bit higher still.
Reality and Real Beatitude respectively would be increasingly closer to the Goal.
Throughout the climb from "base camps" there are on the road guards as well as shelter and Sherpa guides to take you, or to chart the path to the next camp. All and all levels have their utility in the big game of Life! And kindergarten teachers have neither more nor less value or merit as the lecturer at the University. The kindergarten, primary school, secondary school and so on are almost necessary stages.
The Sahaj marg is not the only way nor the best way to reach spiritually! (it is for me and I experience it with more discerning and objectivity as possible, but I am just one individual among billions of others.)
The researcher, journeyer, can stop along the way, speed up, slow down, he is free to remain entangled even in the context of strong individual base camps. We can only smile and show that we continue the path we set.
In my opinion (Babuji and many others have said the same thing) the only responsibility we have is to ourselves, to continue to grow and the more we progess, the more the divine flame in our heart will shine (without applying any human will) it will lead inexorably to other researchers, creating a stream of increasing power.
I said that many old abhyasis have after the departure of the physical Babuji, felt the transmission even more , let me add that more and more in recent years as our abhyasis brothers and sisters progress, the more we experience the power of this omnipresent energy.
The transmission of this energy is not an exclusive TM of Sahaj marg!
A hiker, after an exhausting march, who comes before a mountain lake, experiences receiving this energy of nature. Two people who meet and who are the object of "love at first sight" also experience a transfer, an exchange of energy.
Meeting Mother Teresa or sister Emmanuelle one is permitted or allowed to have this experience.
Leaning on a hundred-year old tree, one can obtain energy from the earth.
Now comes the question of determining qualify, quantifying the vibrational levels of these various energies and in the absence of sufficient mechanical devices that to my knowledge are not available at this time, is problematic.
Here is my opinion:
Already, any plant, animal or person radiates its own energy, this can be photographed (Kirlian effect). Every human being as long as it takes conscience can "transmit" his/her own energy (magnetic, healers, Reiki, voodoo, the list goes on ... I overlook better examples). The more people "elevate themselves" and thereby increasing their capacity the more the currant will appear or be perceived as strong. But again, a strong current of transmission is not necessarily a guarantee of quality. So how does one seperate things?
The transmitter (person) should be aligned with what he/she is supposed to be (relationship between words and deeds) and make people want to know them better.
the more transmission comes from a more advanced level, it should be seen as subtle, light and even if it seems powerful, the state that results should be subtle and light. Babuji would ask, after meditation to stay a few minutes in silence to "ruminate" our state, feel the difference before and after. If this was done, it prevents states of heaviness, headache ... taken for normal or is explained by a poor job by the abhyasi (guilt).
Gradually the practice should perceive some changes in himself, without drastic sacrifice, without mortification of self and without guilt. Babuji has never banned, he advised, suggested, he often told a "small" story, a metaphor that "fit to a tee", the person for whom it was intended.
Never discernment, critical thinking, or attention should disappear from the spirit of the abhyasi, Babuji: "I do not want to make sheep, but lions! "I'm not there to make abhyasis butMasters! ".
Last thing: the state felt, ruminated on (subtle, light, quiet) after the meditation should be a state of resource, to be kept as long as possible or to find the vibration of Divine love and recharge oneself at all times of day, it is just that, constant remembrance (real sense of purpose or practice). While knowing, and keeping in mind that this is transitory (do not fasten oneself thereto), and many other states remain to be discovered.
Well, I leave you, hoping to read you.
Cyrille
Tuesday September 23, 05:07:00 PM
Monday, September 08, 2008
Private Security Hired at SRCM (California) Ashram
Taken from "Freedom from Sahaj Marg-SRCM", community site on ORKUT!
Maybe this is a "sign" that it's time for the SRCM(California) Master, and his "TEAM" to stop "bad-mouthing" other (what he/they call), "corrupt religions", and his own "FAMILY" of Sahaj Marg abhyasis who are leaving his SRCM(California). SRCM is thus dividing the world into THEM and US. Is it not time to start UNITING, at least, all who are true SEEKERS! Do they care?
REMEMBER (constantly): Religion divides, SPIRITUALITY UNITES!! Which "united" seekers are kept out by the "professional security"? Can they also "sniff-out" any material corruption and/or "evil-doers" who may be on the inside also? Now at least, all of you know where some of your "charitable donations" are going! To pay to protect the "accumulated" MATERIAL of SRCM (California) (not very Raja Yoga, or Spiritual)
Security for the SRCM(California) paid by the poor and the simple spiritual seekers from other countries!! How ethical! HOW SPIRITUAL!
I would wager that JESUS, the Christ of the Christians, who Chari likes to quote at opportune times, could not afford to hire a "private security" company... Oh! yes...he had no "CHARITABLE DONATIONS" to rely on! The Christian Bible claims that Jesus of Nazareth paid the ultimate price for his words of opposition to the current SYSTEM of his time. Babuji also did not hire a "professional security" company, though maybe in retrospect, he should have considered it (at his own cost, not from "Charitable Donations"). At SRCM(California), the "society thief" and/or the "enemies of spirituality", seem to be inside the house already! oops... make that the "HOLY" house, sort of like the VATICAN! ;-))
We, ex-abhyasis, who donated to the SRCM(Shahjahanpur) of Babuji, and are now considered: "enemies of Spirituality" by Chari, could also use "security" to protect us from the SRCM(California) fundamentalist fanatics, (mostly insiders) and other "living deads", who allegedly attack other's ashrams and temples and who threaten bloggers lives!
Now, it is alleged by the current President of SRCM (Shahjahanpur), registered in India by the founder, Babuji, in 1945, Navneet Kumar, that Umesh, his father and Babuji's son, who is now deceased, was allegedly poisonned. Others allege that he carried a"pistol" to protect himself! FROM WHO? And the allegations do not stop there... research this group before joining!
This "pseudo-spirituality" is beginning to look and sound like a "Hollywood Western"! ;-))
Oh! ... And please leave your guns at the door with, "Marshall Wyatt Earp"!! We're spiritual here, at Dodge, in the new American "wild west"!
Let's get the women to teach that to the children, so they can learn (by example) how to "UNITE" the world! That is, after the children learn about "India the invincible", and how to salute a "FLAG" of a "NATION" (nationalism, militarism) at their "religious private school".
What's next for SRCM(tm)? An "implanted micro-chip" or "the apocalyptic mark of the BEAST (Bible)", so as to gain entry to the SRCM(California) Ashrams? How about a secret "password"?
There must be a lot of unhappy defecters at SRCM(California) 1997.
Sahaj Sandesh No: 2008.27 – Monday, September 8, 2008
Dear Sisters & Brothers,
With the permission of Rev. Master, we have employed professional security at the main gate of the Babuji Memorial Ashram, Manapakkam effective from 1st August 2008. Hence in the future, it is essential for abhyasis visiting the Manapakkam Ashram to carry their SRCM Abhyasi Card (Temporary or Permanent) and produce the same to the Security personnel at the main gate upon entry into the Ashram. It is to be noted that the Mission badge alone is not sufficient to enter the Ashram.
If the SRCM Abhyasi card is not available, a signed letter of identification from your local centre-in-charge / prefect should be produced to the security personnel.
C. Rajagopalan
Zone-in-charge, Tamil Nadu (North)
Maybe this is a "sign" that it's time for the SRCM(California) Master, and his "TEAM" to stop "bad-mouthing" other (what he/they call), "corrupt religions", and his own "FAMILY" of Sahaj Marg abhyasis who are leaving his SRCM(California). SRCM is thus dividing the world into THEM and US. Is it not time to start UNITING, at least, all who are true SEEKERS! Do they care?
REMEMBER (constantly): Religion divides, SPIRITUALITY UNITES!! Which "united" seekers are kept out by the "professional security"? Can they also "sniff-out" any material corruption and/or "evil-doers" who may be on the inside also? Now at least, all of you know where some of your "charitable donations" are going! To pay to protect the "accumulated" MATERIAL of SRCM (California) (not very Raja Yoga, or Spiritual)
Security for the SRCM(California) paid by the poor and the simple spiritual seekers from other countries!! How ethical! HOW SPIRITUAL!
I would wager that JESUS, the Christ of the Christians, who Chari likes to quote at opportune times, could not afford to hire a "private security" company... Oh! yes...he had no "CHARITABLE DONATIONS" to rely on! The Christian Bible claims that Jesus of Nazareth paid the ultimate price for his words of opposition to the current SYSTEM of his time. Babuji also did not hire a "professional security" company, though maybe in retrospect, he should have considered it (at his own cost, not from "Charitable Donations"). At SRCM(California), the "society thief" and/or the "enemies of spirituality", seem to be inside the house already! oops... make that the "HOLY" house, sort of like the VATICAN! ;-))
We, ex-abhyasis, who donated to the SRCM(Shahjahanpur) of Babuji, and are now considered: "enemies of Spirituality" by Chari, could also use "security" to protect us from the SRCM(California) fundamentalist fanatics, (mostly insiders) and other "living deads", who allegedly attack other's ashrams and temples and who threaten bloggers lives!
Now, it is alleged by the current President of SRCM (Shahjahanpur), registered in India by the founder, Babuji, in 1945, Navneet Kumar, that Umesh, his father and Babuji's son, who is now deceased, was allegedly poisonned. Others allege that he carried a"pistol" to protect himself! FROM WHO? And the allegations do not stop there... research this group before joining!
This "pseudo-spirituality" is beginning to look and sound like a "Hollywood Western"! ;-))
Oh! ... And please leave your guns at the door with, "Marshall Wyatt Earp"!! We're spiritual here, at Dodge, in the new American "wild west"!
Let's get the women to teach that to the children, so they can learn (by example) how to "UNITE" the world! That is, after the children learn about "India the invincible", and how to salute a "FLAG" of a "NATION" (nationalism, militarism) at their "religious private school".
What's next for SRCM(tm)? An "implanted micro-chip" or "the apocalyptic mark of the BEAST (Bible)", so as to gain entry to the SRCM(California) Ashrams? How about a secret "password"?
There must be a lot of unhappy defecters at SRCM(California) 1997.
Sahaj Sandesh No: 2008.27 – Monday, September 8, 2008
Dear Sisters & Brothers,
With the permission of Rev. Master, we have employed professional security at the main gate of the Babuji Memorial Ashram, Manapakkam effective from 1st August 2008. Hence in the future, it is essential for abhyasis visiting the Manapakkam Ashram to carry their SRCM Abhyasi Card (Temporary or Permanent) and produce the same to the Security personnel at the main gate upon entry into the Ashram. It is to be noted that the Mission badge alone is not sufficient to enter the Ashram.
If the SRCM Abhyasi card is not available, a signed letter of identification from your local centre-in-charge / prefect should be produced to the security personnel.
C. Rajagopalan
Zone-in-charge, Tamil Nadu (North)
Thursday, August 28, 2008
Chari's Views on the West and Occidentals
Thank you to Alexis for a copy of this interview of Chari in France, 01/06/2008
You will surely notice the "love" and "uniting" qualities of this self-appointed Master of Spirituality of SRCM(California), registered in 1997 in San Luis Obispo, California, USA. and it's "trade marked" commercial product: SAHAJ MARG.
(translation by author, using Google Translate)
PROVISIONAL translation of informal exchanges
between Chariji and an abhyasi of SRCM (California)
On 01/06/2008 at Guy Joris (France)
ON MUSIC...
Abhyasi: Master does one play the violin without emotion?
Chari: Stay in constant remembrance, think of the Master. Simply do so, regardless of notes and effects. The music in Europe is too strict, it lacks freedom, is too concerned with effects, it is not music, but comedy.
Freedom, freedom, one can not applaud when one wants to applaud, everything is calculated.
A: What happens to my project of mixing styles of music?
C: Do not mix, let the heart play. We should not write music... that is the first mistake.
A: And if one takes oriental instruments to play Western music?
C: You will ruin the oriental music. With our flutists, only the skeleton is there. The skeleton, and on top of that, God creates people, Jacky, this girl, this woman. So the skeleton must be there but what do you have? A piece of opera, Schuman, and the conductor is important, but what does he in fact do?
A: Not much
C: Nothing at all. We did not need him at all. And what's more, he earns more money than everyone. That's a comedy. The same music composed by the same man, with two different conductors, one sells more than the other, I do not know. Guy is a good musician. I asked him what was the difference. He said, but Chariji, he is such a good conductor. Wonderful! Wonderful! My opinion is personal.
A: But you say that to conduct a satsangh, we need a leader, a Conductor.
C: Do you not see the difference? That's why I do not listen to classical music. Before I loved it, but it is always the same thing. I can listen to a raga 50 times and it is always different. A raga has a base but that's all, no conductor. That's why jazz is not very popular you see, because with jazz we forget the people who watch, then why not the same thing with opera.
A: Tell me about a music that elevates the soul.
C: Some Indian music, or for the Germans, some pieces by Mozart. The music must come from the soul. There is the so-called Sufi music, one listens to it and falls asleep. It is not known what it is, the soul, and we do not know what a music that comes from the soul is.
That it is Sufi means nothing. I can scream and my dog and other dogs think that it's music. So music is not even a topic that we can talk about with Westerners (occidentals). I express very strong opinions when I speak with abhyasis. And even your dances you know, they are not natural.
A: One puts rules and mathematics everywhere.
C: Yes everywhere, and too much. And not enough soul, even in meditation. Last night I was reflecting on the difficulties of Westerners and the facilities of the Orientals. I've come to a conclusion based on my reflections, in the Western world you have masters in the arts, crafts, engineering, etc.. all external things. You have masters of everything, electricity, plumbing, music, kitchen. He is a cordon bleu. You do not know the importance of things in relation to each other. Is the food so important that a great chef is paid 20,000 euros per month, it is nonsense. Besides a scientist will only be paid 10,000 euros per month. Does this show the real importance of each thing? Schumacher, No. 1, what is his income, millions of dollars per year. He is like a dog running in a circle behind a bitch that he never gets to touch.
And the tennis players, they earn 10, 15, 20 million, why? Of course tennis is important and is good for the body but nothing else. In the Outside World, there is no relationship between what is important and this is not really, and the more you mix what is really important and what is apparently important, you pay a tennis player 30 million and a professor of science 3000 dollars. And a good cook because she can make a sauce, bismillah, really what a sauce, chutney in India, one should pay for chutney, not for the stove. So you see, everything is reversed in Europe and in the West. You have too many masters. In the East we are not concerned with the outside world, there are enough stupid people to do that for us. One goes inside, one is gone inside our whole life, since hundreds of years. It is a very difficult world. Here one can become an engineer, a banker if one has the education, but may be he does not know the difference between 10 euros and 1 euro because he uses a computer for that. In one billion, how many zeroes are there? 6. But here we will calculate 1 equals 3 power 10 power 4...oh no is that 6 or 9? So in the East one has very few masters. The inner world is not tangible, you can not feel it. You have too many masters on too many topics, including tennis, football. In the East there is only one subject, but it is a matter not only very difficult to understand but it is also infinite. Here you build a radio and you do what with it?... you listen, and that's it. In the inner world there is no end, the master continues and continues. In the Western spirit, you usually start something and it ends, the beginning and the end, Monday to Friday, then holidays, in spirituality there is no holiday, it is always and every day. There is no end. Hence the book by Babuji, Towards Infinity.
Chari's SRCM (California) MISSION in EUROPE
A: But do you think the mission is increasing in Europe
C: Yes it is growing because people who are able to understand are more numerous. In the material world, it is easy. But also in the material world when one goes to the smallest, it is infinite, there are molecules and atoms, the nucleus, the particles. To find them, we need larger and more larger machines. So, to reach the least one needs the more. In the interior, to reach the more, we need less. What does one need, one must eliminate all our exterior attention on girls, food, God, and reduce everything to arrive to one attention, interior, and that's it. So you see, there are too many masters of the outside world, everything is tangible, may be touched, felt. In the spiritual world, it is always less and less, and less. It is not known how much progress is being made, where it begins and where it ends.
A: It's hard to follow you because one must live in this world and earn money
C: No no it's not difficult for you, it's difficult for me. You come, you meditate and you say Chari is useless, since 20 years he comes and I have not changed. . But this is not my fault... is it my fault? It is your fault because you are wasting all your energy to make music. I will not play perhaps as well as you, but in three days I can play something. What can you do in meditation? You're only capable of mastering the outside world, and you do not know what to do with your inner world. You do not want to obey the teacher, you say that you are free, France is the country of freedom, equality, fraternity. The freedom to do that which is bad, not to be disciplined, marrying many times to have a lot of sentimental adventures. And what equality, you killed a queen because she was born like that, you murdered her, and you make an annual celebration on the 14th of July. The pride of the french, this is your freedom, equality, fraternity. And poor Marie Antoinette, killed. It's your idea of equality and fraternity. And brotherhood exists when there is wine to drink and you are drunk. You can have this kind freedom equality and fraternity. In spirituality there is only one equality, the soul. It is always the same and it is immortal, eternal, and every soul is equal to another. But you want the physical equality. The freedom of the soul is eternal. My soul is trapped in my body and the body has 5 senses, it wants kissing, touching, to do so many things, eat, drink. And the freedom of the french tells them they can drink, Chari. Ok drink, exercise your freedom and you'll come back over and over until you understand that this is not true freedom. They are your desires that make you come back, it is not God.
There was a body buried in a garden in Malaysia, and every Saturday we put in the tomb 6 bottles of beer in case the ghost came and would have liked to drink. So many attachments. It is a true story. And if they did not do this, there were problems at home, windows banging, things falling over. What to do, there are so many attachments that even without a body to benefit from our desires. Too many desires pass from the body into the soul, or rather in the ghost that remains in the corner looking for pizza or something else. And even if the body is dead, the ghost continues to want the pizza. And it affects all the pizzerias that double-close their doors.
Finally a priest comes, and if the priest is capable it works. Babuji said choose a master who knows his work and when you find him, attach yourself to him because you're the idiot who risks to let everything fall, it is not the teacher who will let you down.
ON the WEST (France)
A: So if I'm really focused, nothing in my life will affect me?
C: Nothing. This is the difference between East and West. Here there are too many masters. A person took a 3 day course to learn raiki she comes to see me to try to heal me. She wants me cured with a course of three days. You have courses that last a few days or weeks. When I was a boy, I wanted to do Yoga. I was not allowed to enter because all the girls were in skintights and it was unaffordable. But I instinctively knew that I had to do something in relation to yoga. To become really succeed at meditation, forget your Western ideas on skills, degrees, masters. You will not be a master carpenter, but a teacher who was also a carpenter before. But you are going to make me believe that a master carpenter is also a master in meditation? You can guarantee everything but you can not guarantee the brain of a brilliant man. We can not guarantee the spirituality of a man. When you go to Paris, there are so many streets and avenues named after Napoleon's generals. You glorify the war. Where are the old philosophers, I do not know if they exist, or they appoint a sports stadium (in their honour) somewhere.
So spirituality should be getting rid of everything. That is what I had to say to you today, all these thoughts that I have. Why are the East and the West so different? The difference is in the heart, not in the brain. The same soul, the same heart. One does need to have a Eastern or a Western heart, but a loving heart. Why does the East and the West not join?
THE EAST vs THE WEST
A: Samskaras?
C: No it's like saying why is he black or why is he white, samskaras... it is not it. It is the quality of the heart. We make our own universe which is a world of fantasy, and there we live and there we are happy. There is a beautiful film about a woman who takes her two children to school, and everybody dies. The husband goes to hell to bring back his family. And he finds his wife living in a beautiful and happy house at the bottom of hell and it has great difficulty in making her leave again. That's love. Babuji said we have to learn so much about the quality of life but at some moment we must get to the bottom of hell to be able to emerge. If a man climbs a tree and can not climb back down, he can jump. But if there is a precipice of three hundred meters and someone falls, it will be very difficult to go look for him. So going to hell requires a master. And a total love for the other. In this society we do believe in the outcome of production, a pen, a car, a performance, appearance, comfort, the best car for the best boss, and we forget the environment. One goes outward to meet one's pride, our desires, our attraction to material goods, and still more and more. In spirituality it is increasingly less and less. It seems simple that is why it is so difficult.
Enough for today. Thank you for coming with this weather, this rain. In my time with my master at Shahjahanpur, it was raining forever. I slept in the water without feeling uncomfortable or unfortunate, and I slept well because I thought of my master. Here one must have thick mattresses, and one of your most beautiful stories is that of the princess and the pea. With a pea under her 7 mattress she could not sleep. What will happen when they sleep with a husband who taps her with his knees and elbows in his sleep, and bad breath. I do not know how European women sleep with their husbands because most have bad breath. I'm afraid when people come and talk to me, I turn my head, I tell the truth.
The attachment is in the head, love is in the heart. I like this tree but I'm not going to cut it and bring it to Madras. My knowledge of the material world tells me that if it is a living thing, I must not take it. I can not take but dead things. I can take a stick, but not a dog or a songbird, it does not sing in a cage. We must behave as if we were dead to this world. The world belongs to God, not to us. If you remember that, you will not harm nature. Guy has a gardener for 300 euros per month. to take care of his garden. But this world can take care of itself. I read a book by a German philosopher. And on the first page there are 4 lines, the name of the highest mountain (he names a place), all men can take in a suitcae of a square kilometre, the suitcase is placed on top of the mountain, and made to grow (is planted), and the valley grass turns green forever. Nature can take care of itself. Nature takes care of us. In the vedas, there are poems, may all things prosper, grass, birds, flowers, jungle, and this is the first verse that has been on the ecology of nature, and that applies to our life. We suffer because our rivers and oceans are polluted, the air is polluted, by whom? Westerners.
A: China and India are contributing a lot.
C: Not only the smoke. The largest air pollutant are the sprays, aerosols. And every year there are resolutions to stop them, but always stop them in a few years, they always push back the dates, now they say they will stop in 2010 but in 2009 they will say 2050. The sole purpose is to make the money they give to politicians, politicians give the voters. We don't want to kill more whales but Japan continues and sends the entire world walking. Why does America not fire on the boats of the whaling fishermen? They go well into Afghanistan, Iraq, only because they want oil. Their policy is only based on their interest. Why is Europe united with it?
A: To be stronger
C: To be stronger militarily and politically. That is why many countries lack confidence. This is not for freedom or equality, it is for personal interest. People continue to hate. Denmark has kept its currency, England too. It is with such people, one likes the lips of the girl one will kiss, and the other, he loves her nose. In films you see a perfect girl, and boys want a girl like that. In reality, legs belong to another girl and it is a (special effects) production. Every part of the girl is from a different girl. This is not at all reality. We live a life filled with physical material wealth, beautiful lamps, nice curtains, mattresses, and the surrounding... nothing, no sleep, one takes more and more pills. Maybe in 20 years a businessman will buy this house and destroy the garden. The trees took 350 years to grow and everything can be cut to 35 minutes.
And nobody will say that these trees were beautiful because they will sell everything for apartments, and earn 30 million euros. How important are these trees. The West must give up this life and this material attachments, because you can lead a comfortable life but the attachment must leave.
THE Chari SOLUTION
A: How to get there?
C: It's very easy. First stop asking how things are called. What is it? A pancake. Oh a pancake,very impressive. What is this pizza? Mushrooms. Snails, Frogs. One starts loving the name and not the thing. A man tastes the wine and decides the price. From Beaujolais, 60 euros a bottle, rum 27 euros a bottle, is always alcohol. From beaujolais of 1967, ahhhhhhhhhhhhh 3000 euros the bottle. Someone won in an auction one of the older wines for $ 2 million. I do not know if they drank it or if they have kept for 2000 years or for resale. The things of value are never used. Recently they sold a diamond at auction at Christies to the highest price ever paid for a diamond. One day I wanted to go as Vivekananda on a trek on foot for a month by myself. I told it to Babuji, I want to take 5 rupees and leave for one month, he mocked me... take the train. Babuji cut this desire. I never left, I was afraid.
A: And the commitment vis-à-vis the people?
C: Babuji said there was no love between people. There is only dependence, friendship, commitment. Nothing else. Saying that one loves his wife is a lie. If you loved your wives there would be no divorces. You can not teach people to love. We can teach them how to make love but it should be natural. One day I had a long discussion with a married couple from a religion I do not want to name, and the man asked me what my teacher said that is not already in the book of his religion. I asked what his book talked about. He said everything about life, including how to make love. I said sir, you need a prophet for that. He blushed. The philosophy is in the books, not in life. There are so many philosophers who have become insane. In the East it is not possible that a philosopher becomes insane. Because a Master can not commit suicide or become insane.
HOMOSEXUALITY AND AIDS (Compassion?, Love?, acceptance? Tolerance?))
A: When will you go to Africa?
C: Why do you want me to go to Africa. I work according to the orders I receive from my master If he goes to France I come here. If he says why you spend three days eating well with Guy, I'm finished.
I was with Babuji in Rome, at the Vatican and the former pope was there. An old man very sick, very tired, he blessed the people in three languages, and finally he said something that made many people angry, he said he will offer a special prayer for people who have AIDS.
I was angry, I said why AIDS? Why not diabetes or legs broken, and not AIDS which is a disease that should not be accepted nor tolerated in any way. Many abhyasis told me that I have no heart when I say that. I said too bad I have no heart because if I had a heart I could not work. At the beginning of my spiritual life, I gave my heart to my master. And now I can only work with my head.
If he says no sitting I give no sitting, I must obey the orders, you know. When I told Babuji what was in the pope's prayer he was also surprised. The religious leaders can pray for a specific group. In India our prayer is "may all be happy and healthy everywhere." One prays not for whites, African, Chinese… this is not like that. May all be happy people everywhere.
Thank you brothers and sisters
You will surely notice the "love" and "uniting" qualities of this self-appointed Master of Spirituality of SRCM(California), registered in 1997 in San Luis Obispo, California, USA. and it's "trade marked" commercial product: SAHAJ MARG.
(translation by author, using Google Translate)
PROVISIONAL translation of informal exchanges
between Chariji and an abhyasi of SRCM (California)
On 01/06/2008 at Guy Joris (France)
ON MUSIC...
Abhyasi: Master does one play the violin without emotion?
Chari: Stay in constant remembrance, think of the Master. Simply do so, regardless of notes and effects. The music in Europe is too strict, it lacks freedom, is too concerned with effects, it is not music, but comedy.
Freedom, freedom, one can not applaud when one wants to applaud, everything is calculated.
A: What happens to my project of mixing styles of music?
C: Do not mix, let the heart play. We should not write music... that is the first mistake.
A: And if one takes oriental instruments to play Western music?
C: You will ruin the oriental music. With our flutists, only the skeleton is there. The skeleton, and on top of that, God creates people, Jacky, this girl, this woman. So the skeleton must be there but what do you have? A piece of opera, Schuman, and the conductor is important, but what does he in fact do?
A: Not much
C: Nothing at all. We did not need him at all. And what's more, he earns more money than everyone. That's a comedy. The same music composed by the same man, with two different conductors, one sells more than the other, I do not know. Guy is a good musician. I asked him what was the difference. He said, but Chariji, he is such a good conductor. Wonderful! Wonderful! My opinion is personal.
A: But you say that to conduct a satsangh, we need a leader, a Conductor.
C: Do you not see the difference? That's why I do not listen to classical music. Before I loved it, but it is always the same thing. I can listen to a raga 50 times and it is always different. A raga has a base but that's all, no conductor. That's why jazz is not very popular you see, because with jazz we forget the people who watch, then why not the same thing with opera.
A: Tell me about a music that elevates the soul.
C: Some Indian music, or for the Germans, some pieces by Mozart. The music must come from the soul. There is the so-called Sufi music, one listens to it and falls asleep. It is not known what it is, the soul, and we do not know what a music that comes from the soul is.
That it is Sufi means nothing. I can scream and my dog and other dogs think that it's music. So music is not even a topic that we can talk about with Westerners (occidentals). I express very strong opinions when I speak with abhyasis. And even your dances you know, they are not natural.
A: One puts rules and mathematics everywhere.
C: Yes everywhere, and too much. And not enough soul, even in meditation. Last night I was reflecting on the difficulties of Westerners and the facilities of the Orientals. I've come to a conclusion based on my reflections, in the Western world you have masters in the arts, crafts, engineering, etc.. all external things. You have masters of everything, electricity, plumbing, music, kitchen. He is a cordon bleu. You do not know the importance of things in relation to each other. Is the food so important that a great chef is paid 20,000 euros per month, it is nonsense. Besides a scientist will only be paid 10,000 euros per month. Does this show the real importance of each thing? Schumacher, No. 1, what is his income, millions of dollars per year. He is like a dog running in a circle behind a bitch that he never gets to touch.
And the tennis players, they earn 10, 15, 20 million, why? Of course tennis is important and is good for the body but nothing else. In the Outside World, there is no relationship between what is important and this is not really, and the more you mix what is really important and what is apparently important, you pay a tennis player 30 million and a professor of science 3000 dollars. And a good cook because she can make a sauce, bismillah, really what a sauce, chutney in India, one should pay for chutney, not for the stove. So you see, everything is reversed in Europe and in the West. You have too many masters. In the East we are not concerned with the outside world, there are enough stupid people to do that for us. One goes inside, one is gone inside our whole life, since hundreds of years. It is a very difficult world. Here one can become an engineer, a banker if one has the education, but may be he does not know the difference between 10 euros and 1 euro because he uses a computer for that. In one billion, how many zeroes are there? 6. But here we will calculate 1 equals 3 power 10 power 4...oh no is that 6 or 9? So in the East one has very few masters. The inner world is not tangible, you can not feel it. You have too many masters on too many topics, including tennis, football. In the East there is only one subject, but it is a matter not only very difficult to understand but it is also infinite. Here you build a radio and you do what with it?... you listen, and that's it. In the inner world there is no end, the master continues and continues. In the Western spirit, you usually start something and it ends, the beginning and the end, Monday to Friday, then holidays, in spirituality there is no holiday, it is always and every day. There is no end. Hence the book by Babuji, Towards Infinity.
Chari's SRCM (California) MISSION in EUROPE
A: But do you think the mission is increasing in Europe
C: Yes it is growing because people who are able to understand are more numerous. In the material world, it is easy. But also in the material world when one goes to the smallest, it is infinite, there are molecules and atoms, the nucleus, the particles. To find them, we need larger and more larger machines. So, to reach the least one needs the more. In the interior, to reach the more, we need less. What does one need, one must eliminate all our exterior attention on girls, food, God, and reduce everything to arrive to one attention, interior, and that's it. So you see, there are too many masters of the outside world, everything is tangible, may be touched, felt. In the spiritual world, it is always less and less, and less. It is not known how much progress is being made, where it begins and where it ends.
A: It's hard to follow you because one must live in this world and earn money
C: No no it's not difficult for you, it's difficult for me. You come, you meditate and you say Chari is useless, since 20 years he comes and I have not changed. . But this is not my fault... is it my fault? It is your fault because you are wasting all your energy to make music. I will not play perhaps as well as you, but in three days I can play something. What can you do in meditation? You're only capable of mastering the outside world, and you do not know what to do with your inner world. You do not want to obey the teacher, you say that you are free, France is the country of freedom, equality, fraternity. The freedom to do that which is bad, not to be disciplined, marrying many times to have a lot of sentimental adventures. And what equality, you killed a queen because she was born like that, you murdered her, and you make an annual celebration on the 14th of July. The pride of the french, this is your freedom, equality, fraternity. And poor Marie Antoinette, killed. It's your idea of equality and fraternity. And brotherhood exists when there is wine to drink and you are drunk. You can have this kind freedom equality and fraternity. In spirituality there is only one equality, the soul. It is always the same and it is immortal, eternal, and every soul is equal to another. But you want the physical equality. The freedom of the soul is eternal. My soul is trapped in my body and the body has 5 senses, it wants kissing, touching, to do so many things, eat, drink. And the freedom of the french tells them they can drink, Chari. Ok drink, exercise your freedom and you'll come back over and over until you understand that this is not true freedom. They are your desires that make you come back, it is not God.
There was a body buried in a garden in Malaysia, and every Saturday we put in the tomb 6 bottles of beer in case the ghost came and would have liked to drink. So many attachments. It is a true story. And if they did not do this, there were problems at home, windows banging, things falling over. What to do, there are so many attachments that even without a body to benefit from our desires. Too many desires pass from the body into the soul, or rather in the ghost that remains in the corner looking for pizza or something else. And even if the body is dead, the ghost continues to want the pizza. And it affects all the pizzerias that double-close their doors.
Finally a priest comes, and if the priest is capable it works. Babuji said choose a master who knows his work and when you find him, attach yourself to him because you're the idiot who risks to let everything fall, it is not the teacher who will let you down.
ON the WEST (France)
A: So if I'm really focused, nothing in my life will affect me?
C: Nothing. This is the difference between East and West. Here there are too many masters. A person took a 3 day course to learn raiki she comes to see me to try to heal me. She wants me cured with a course of three days. You have courses that last a few days or weeks. When I was a boy, I wanted to do Yoga. I was not allowed to enter because all the girls were in skintights and it was unaffordable. But I instinctively knew that I had to do something in relation to yoga. To become really succeed at meditation, forget your Western ideas on skills, degrees, masters. You will not be a master carpenter, but a teacher who was also a carpenter before. But you are going to make me believe that a master carpenter is also a master in meditation? You can guarantee everything but you can not guarantee the brain of a brilliant man. We can not guarantee the spirituality of a man. When you go to Paris, there are so many streets and avenues named after Napoleon's generals. You glorify the war. Where are the old philosophers, I do not know if they exist, or they appoint a sports stadium (in their honour) somewhere.
So spirituality should be getting rid of everything. That is what I had to say to you today, all these thoughts that I have. Why are the East and the West so different? The difference is in the heart, not in the brain. The same soul, the same heart. One does need to have a Eastern or a Western heart, but a loving heart. Why does the East and the West not join?
THE EAST vs THE WEST
A: Samskaras?
C: No it's like saying why is he black or why is he white, samskaras... it is not it. It is the quality of the heart. We make our own universe which is a world of fantasy, and there we live and there we are happy. There is a beautiful film about a woman who takes her two children to school, and everybody dies. The husband goes to hell to bring back his family. And he finds his wife living in a beautiful and happy house at the bottom of hell and it has great difficulty in making her leave again. That's love. Babuji said we have to learn so much about the quality of life but at some moment we must get to the bottom of hell to be able to emerge. If a man climbs a tree and can not climb back down, he can jump. But if there is a precipice of three hundred meters and someone falls, it will be very difficult to go look for him. So going to hell requires a master. And a total love for the other. In this society we do believe in the outcome of production, a pen, a car, a performance, appearance, comfort, the best car for the best boss, and we forget the environment. One goes outward to meet one's pride, our desires, our attraction to material goods, and still more and more. In spirituality it is increasingly less and less. It seems simple that is why it is so difficult.
Enough for today. Thank you for coming with this weather, this rain. In my time with my master at Shahjahanpur, it was raining forever. I slept in the water without feeling uncomfortable or unfortunate, and I slept well because I thought of my master. Here one must have thick mattresses, and one of your most beautiful stories is that of the princess and the pea. With a pea under her 7 mattress she could not sleep. What will happen when they sleep with a husband who taps her with his knees and elbows in his sleep, and bad breath. I do not know how European women sleep with their husbands because most have bad breath. I'm afraid when people come and talk to me, I turn my head, I tell the truth.
The attachment is in the head, love is in the heart. I like this tree but I'm not going to cut it and bring it to Madras. My knowledge of the material world tells me that if it is a living thing, I must not take it. I can not take but dead things. I can take a stick, but not a dog or a songbird, it does not sing in a cage. We must behave as if we were dead to this world. The world belongs to God, not to us. If you remember that, you will not harm nature. Guy has a gardener for 300 euros per month. to take care of his garden. But this world can take care of itself. I read a book by a German philosopher. And on the first page there are 4 lines, the name of the highest mountain (he names a place), all men can take in a suitcae of a square kilometre, the suitcase is placed on top of the mountain, and made to grow (is planted), and the valley grass turns green forever. Nature can take care of itself. Nature takes care of us. In the vedas, there are poems, may all things prosper, grass, birds, flowers, jungle, and this is the first verse that has been on the ecology of nature, and that applies to our life. We suffer because our rivers and oceans are polluted, the air is polluted, by whom? Westerners.
A: China and India are contributing a lot.
C: Not only the smoke. The largest air pollutant are the sprays, aerosols. And every year there are resolutions to stop them, but always stop them in a few years, they always push back the dates, now they say they will stop in 2010 but in 2009 they will say 2050. The sole purpose is to make the money they give to politicians, politicians give the voters. We don't want to kill more whales but Japan continues and sends the entire world walking. Why does America not fire on the boats of the whaling fishermen? They go well into Afghanistan, Iraq, only because they want oil. Their policy is only based on their interest. Why is Europe united with it?
A: To be stronger
C: To be stronger militarily and politically. That is why many countries lack confidence. This is not for freedom or equality, it is for personal interest. People continue to hate. Denmark has kept its currency, England too. It is with such people, one likes the lips of the girl one will kiss, and the other, he loves her nose. In films you see a perfect girl, and boys want a girl like that. In reality, legs belong to another girl and it is a (special effects) production. Every part of the girl is from a different girl. This is not at all reality. We live a life filled with physical material wealth, beautiful lamps, nice curtains, mattresses, and the surrounding... nothing, no sleep, one takes more and more pills. Maybe in 20 years a businessman will buy this house and destroy the garden. The trees took 350 years to grow and everything can be cut to 35 minutes.
And nobody will say that these trees were beautiful because they will sell everything for apartments, and earn 30 million euros. How important are these trees. The West must give up this life and this material attachments, because you can lead a comfortable life but the attachment must leave.
THE Chari SOLUTION
A: How to get there?
C: It's very easy. First stop asking how things are called. What is it? A pancake. Oh a pancake,very impressive. What is this pizza? Mushrooms. Snails, Frogs. One starts loving the name and not the thing. A man tastes the wine and decides the price. From Beaujolais, 60 euros a bottle, rum 27 euros a bottle, is always alcohol. From beaujolais of 1967, ahhhhhhhhhhhhh 3000 euros the bottle. Someone won in an auction one of the older wines for $ 2 million. I do not know if they drank it or if they have kept for 2000 years or for resale. The things of value are never used. Recently they sold a diamond at auction at Christies to the highest price ever paid for a diamond. One day I wanted to go as Vivekananda on a trek on foot for a month by myself. I told it to Babuji, I want to take 5 rupees and leave for one month, he mocked me... take the train. Babuji cut this desire. I never left, I was afraid.
A: And the commitment vis-à-vis the people?
C: Babuji said there was no love between people. There is only dependence, friendship, commitment. Nothing else. Saying that one loves his wife is a lie. If you loved your wives there would be no divorces. You can not teach people to love. We can teach them how to make love but it should be natural. One day I had a long discussion with a married couple from a religion I do not want to name, and the man asked me what my teacher said that is not already in the book of his religion. I asked what his book talked about. He said everything about life, including how to make love. I said sir, you need a prophet for that. He blushed. The philosophy is in the books, not in life. There are so many philosophers who have become insane. In the East it is not possible that a philosopher becomes insane. Because a Master can not commit suicide or become insane.
HOMOSEXUALITY AND AIDS (Compassion?, Love?, acceptance? Tolerance?))
A: When will you go to Africa?
C: Why do you want me to go to Africa. I work according to the orders I receive from my master If he goes to France I come here. If he says why you spend three days eating well with Guy, I'm finished.
I was with Babuji in Rome, at the Vatican and the former pope was there. An old man very sick, very tired, he blessed the people in three languages, and finally he said something that made many people angry, he said he will offer a special prayer for people who have AIDS.
I was angry, I said why AIDS? Why not diabetes or legs broken, and not AIDS which is a disease that should not be accepted nor tolerated in any way. Many abhyasis told me that I have no heart when I say that. I said too bad I have no heart because if I had a heart I could not work. At the beginning of my spiritual life, I gave my heart to my master. And now I can only work with my head.
If he says no sitting I give no sitting, I must obey the orders, you know. When I told Babuji what was in the pope's prayer he was also surprised. The religious leaders can pray for a specific group. In India our prayer is "may all be happy and healthy everywhere." One prays not for whites, African, Chinese… this is not like that. May all be happy people everywhere.
Thank you brothers and sisters
Take the False Guru Test
Taken from: The Energy Grid Alternative Magazine
I only include the numbers that, in my opinion, obviously matches Babuji in a few cases and Chari, of SRCM (California) in many cases, directly and in some cases, indirectly. See "here" for the complete list. See how many FIT your GURU directly and/or indirectly (i.e. Chari making claims for Babuji and Lalaji and then claiming to be their "successor")
TAKE THE FALSE GURU TEST. If seven or more of the following describes your guru or spiritual teacher, then unfortunately he or she may not be be as enlightened or good for your soul as you would like to believe:
1. States his or her own enlightenment: The wisest masters tend not to state their own enlightenment or perfection for they know that it is both unhelpful to themselves and to their students. The false teachers often make this claim because they have little else on offer to attract followers.
In the case of SRCM, the current Guru of the SRCM (California) schism, makes claims of the "enlightenment" of his Guru (the "Special Personality") and even makes claims of being his "successor". When the Founder's society Board of Directors (SRCM Shahjahanpur) did not agree, Chari registered the same name in the USA and placed himself as President and Spiritual Successor of Babuji, the Founder of Sahaj Marg. He also registered a "trade mark" for SAHAJ MARG. Chari claims to be the succesor of Babuji...Babuji claims to be the successor of Lalaji. Both are disputed by the "founders society", and have been the cause of "schisms". Lalaji has his legitimate successor and society (Ramashram). And Babuji's family (SRCM Shahjahanpur), and KC Narayana of the break-away Institute of Ram Chandra Consciousness-ISRC, dispute Chari's claims of being Babuji's "Spiritual Successor" and challenge the legitimacy of SRCM(California), registered in 1997 in San Luis Obispo, California, in the USA.
2. Is unable to take criticism: False teachers strongly dislike either personal criticism or criticism of their teaching; they do not take kindly to ordinary unenlightened individuals questioning them. They or their organisations will even undertake multi-million dollar law suits to stop ex-members from spilling the beans.
Chari, in his book: "He, the Hookah and I", calls ex-abhyasis who criticise him and his "management team", and even some who have attempted to salvage some of the good parts of Sahaj Marg by opening a free and open dialogue on their blogs, of being the "enemies of spirituality". And the SRCM (California) "management team" sent out a "decree" that abhyasis were not to read the blogs, then in Mar. 18, 2007, they reversed that failed policy because of it's failure, not because of its lack of morality or ethics.
3. Acts omnipotently with no accountability: Some spiritual communities are run like concentration camps, with guru and his chosen ones acting like Gestapo officers. Unjust or outrageous behaviour by the guru is passed off as what is needed to help the followers grow (how kind). These are the dangerous gurus who have often severely damaged their students. A real master respects your will even if he or she understands that your particular decisions may not be in your interest, and he or she will act accountably to an ethical code of conduct.
Sahaj Marg demands that the abhysi's will be subject to the will of the Master and that the disciple become as a "living dead" in the hands of a funeral director. Arranged Marriages! Stand against Homosexuality as being "un-natural"! Claim and teaching to children that "GOD IS MALE" and women can't be Masters in SRCM (California), because they are not "destructive" enough. When asked for clarification, Chari said in an e-mail that the Master did work of destruction on a "cosmic level". (e-mail available on demand). It begs the question: Which part of the COSMOS does the Master of SRCM(California) destroy? Is SRCM(California) Apocalyptic? Read here and you decide
4. Focuses on enlightenment itself rather than teaching the path leading to it: It is amazing how much false gurus have to say about enlightenment. They argue their points in the same way that the scholars in the middle ages argued how many angels could sit on the head of a pin. Any fool can talk about the end goal because what is said is irrefutable to most of your listeners. What is skillful is guiding those listeners to having awakening within themselves. The real teacher focuses on the path and strictly avoids any talk on enlightenment.
At Sahaj Marg, it is called The GOAL! Chari says: Sahaj Marg has no philosophy according to Chari. The path is "obedience" and "surrender" to the 3M's of SRCM (California), the Master, the Mission and the Method. The good disciple will be like a "living dead" in the hands of a funeral director and will be able to kill without emotions like a "soldier". The really good disciple can even "kill his mother" if asked by the GURU.
5. Does not practice what is preached: Contrary to spiritual myth, you don't reach a point of realization whereby you can then start acting mindlessly. If a teacher preaches love and forgiveness, then he should act that way, at least most of the time, showing suitable regret for any lapses). If he teaches meditation, he should meditate. If he insists that his followers live in austere conditions, so should he.
Too many incidents of not practicing what is preached to list here. Love, inclusion and acceptance of "homosexuals" would be the most obvious. Calling ex-abhyasis "enemies of spirituality", and calling other religions such as "catholics" are called "liars", all religions are called "corrupt and promoting violence and war, and the "role of women who can't become "masters of SRCM, would be the other obvious examples. Why can't women be Masters, really? And where does the evidence lie for the statement that "homosexuality" is "un-natural"? Do your research before joining.
6. Takes the credit for a particular meditative or healing technique: The fact is that meditation and guided visualisation work. Anyone doing them will experience major changes, benefits and realizations. The false guru will try to own or trademark particular methods and techniques so that she has something unique to attract followers. And she will hijack the effects of meditation as the guru's blessing rather than each individuals natural potential. Often the students or followers are forbidden from divulging the techniques to maintain a sort of intellectual property right, usually under the guise of needing the technique to be taught correctly.
False claim that Transmission is UNIQUE to Sahaj Marg and was originated by "Lalaji". Babuji claimed that he became Lalaji's successor in a dream, 13 years after Lalaji's death, even though he only met him a few times, was never a preceptor or a member of Lalaji's organization, which still functions independent of SRCM (Shahjahanpur), was registered in 1945 in India. SRCM (Calfiornia) of Chari, registered in 1997, in the USA calls it's meditation "Sahaj Marg" and has registered it as a commercial "trade mark". Sahaj Marg is now a commercial "product", owned by SRCM (California) and it's current self-appointed Master, Chari.
8. Lives in total opulence: There is nothing wrong with living in luxury or being wealthy. But when that luxury turns to unnecessary opulence using funds that were not explicitly donated for that purpose then you are probably dealing with a false guru. Money is collected from followers usually in the form of donations, and those donations are given as an act of love, appreciation and to help spread the influence of the master. However, a genuine master is more likely to use such wealth to lessen the suffering in this world, not to buy another yacht, private jet or Rolls Royce.
Many complaints of favouring and appointing the "Brahmin sect", the wealthy, etc.. Spends much time in Dubai and in Mauritius, resort in the Indian Ocean. Favours the chosen "wealthy" with the "non-profit" percs such as travel, free admittance, food, etc...Notice the "golden lions" and the marble in the ashrams and schools (14 ft ceilings in classroom according to Chari).
9. Encourages or permits adoration from his followers: Avoid any group that focuses on the "master" themselves rather than the teachings or spiritual practices. This will be a hindrance to your self-realisation for your focus will be drawn outside of yourself, and usually indicates that there is not a lot more on offer than guru worship.
Not only adoration but total "obedience" and surrender to the point of "killing the mother" if asked, simply to show obedience. All responsibility for the actions of the disciple are with the Master, in SRCM(California). The will of the abhuasi will be subject to the will of the Master.
10. Presents himself or herself overly fashionably and glamorously: Beware of masters who present glamour photographs of themselves and dress overly fashionably (whilst proclaiming that they have no ego and leading ego-death retreats). Yes it does happen!
The Guru attire and the "golf cart" is "in vogue" with Chari. He is no "Mahatma Ghandi" and does not renounce the Material pleasures even as the poor are dying all around. There is no reduction of "carbon footprint" in Sahaj Marg, even to save the Planet. To find God, Abhyasis travel around the world, following Chari.
11. Demands love and devotion from their students: Keep clear of any master who demands love and devotion. One very well known Western guru stated, "Anyone who loves me is guaranteed enlightenment"! Real love and devotion is earned over time when we begin to really know the whole person and not their public image.
IN SPADES!!
15. Flatters you and treats you as very special: Sure we are all special in some ways, but this is one of the things that a false guru may do to hook a potential follower or to get a current follower to do a particular task. Nothing can be more intoxicating to the ego than to be selected by the master or leader (or any high profile person). A real master will stand back and allow you to make your decision whether to accept his or her teachings without trying to influence the process.
The flattery is with "titles" and "volunteer positions" with no power in the hope of being "favoured" by a look at the GURU. The no-power "titles" all have to do with gathering new members, and/or the menial duties of food, cleaning, or "volunteering" in all the functions of the Mission, which the "serf" is said to "own", but can't vote or have any decision-making power.
16. Talks bollocks: It is surprising what a person will listen to when he or she is devoted to the speaker. It is always a good idea to get hold of a written transcript of what has been said and really read the message. Then tell an open-minded friend who is not a follower what their opinion is purely on the strength of the words. You will soon find out whether there is any real substance to the teacher's message, or whether you are merely being drawn in by the charisma of the messenger.
Read some of his interviews and speeches...I will put a recent one as the next article on this blog.
17. Overly relies on slick presentation: Slick presentation can often mask poor content, and so it is important for you to look past the lovely music and video shows at the actual message. The slicker the presentation, the harder it is to see what exactly the teaching is.
18. Gives him or herself outrageous titles: Not satisfied by being "merely" an enlightened being, many false gurus give themselves titles (or allow their followers to do so) to indicate that they are literally God-Incarnate, the reincarnation of the Buddha or Christ, or THE chosen one. Some continually change their names, to keep pace with their burgeoning egos.
SRCM (California) and others call Ram Chandra, the founder of Sahaj Marg, the "Special Personality", a title he made up himself. Chari calls himself a "master of HUMANITY"
20. Is not interested in you personally: If a teacher or guru does not have time to interact with you personally, then you may as well read his teaching from a book, because merely being in his presence doesn't help you find realization inside you. You may model some of his spiritual characteristics, but that often only places you deeper in illusion.
Good luck!!
21. Allows his followers to set up a hierarchy of access: A guru must be accessible. If he is not, or if he allows his followers to block your access, then he is playing the role of a king and not a spiritual guide. A guru is only useful to the process of awakening if you can directly interact with him.
This is SRCM (California) to a tee.
22. Makes false claims of lineage: Many mistakenly believe that realisation can only happen under the guidance of a realized master. In this belief system, gurus are only authentic when they come from a line or lineage of realized gurus. Desperate not to be left out, some gurus claim a false lineage of enlightened masters to bolster their authority to teach. Another pseudo form of "lineage" is to recount a miracle that once happened to them (maybe they cured themselves of some disease or God spoke to them personally) which infers that they are "chosen" and therefore have the authority to set themselves up as teachers and gurus.
Read the History of Sahaj Marg in the Sahaj Marg Project for a revealing expose of the REAL history of Shri Ram Chandra Mission. This is very different from "official" party version and is corroborated by other groups and authoritative individuals. The research is exhaustive and has been quoted by others since it was released.
23. Presents themselves as non-profit whilst raking in the millions: Often, the false prophet will present her teachings for free, whilst strongly encouraging her devotees to make large donations. In this way she can appear above money considerations, whilst maintaining her greed and opulence.
Donations to SRCM (California) have reached the "million" level, by Indian supporters of the Chamber of Commerce of India, Diaspora Project in the so-called "corrupt" west.
24. Collects a large band of angry ex-followers: This is an indication that something is seriously wrong. If she has used kindness and love in her interactions with her students, and has discouraged them from projecting denied spiritual characteristics onto the guru (rather than encouraging their integration into the self), then it is extremely unlikely that there would be more than a few disheartened ex's. Many might drift away and feel they have wasted their time, but they are only likely to have the great anger if they have put their teacher on a pedestal, given him their power, and later realized that he was never worthy of such adoration. Contrary to what some believe, it is actually the teacher's responsibility to strongly discourage students from putting them on pedestals, for this is counterproductive to finding realisation inside.
There are currently enough blogs to cause the "management team" much concern. If one phone call from an "unsatisfied customer" means that there are at least 10 unsatisfied customers who don't phone, and if one letter of complaint means that there are 100 unsatisfied customers who don't write, then one blog means that there are at least over 1,000 unsatisfied ex-disciples of SRCM out there. And that is not counting the many "schisms" and their disciples, such as KC Narayana's ISRC, and SRCM (Shahjahanpur), the original society registered in India in 1945 and still controlled by the Founder's grandson, Navneet Kumar Saxena.
26. Acts like a complete paranoid mad person: If your Precious One acts like a complete paranoid schizophrenic or psychotic then he or she probably is. Run! Remember that there is no such thing as "crazy wisdom"—wisdom is the art of being balanced. However charismatic they may be, and sane between moments of madness, you WILL be damaged by them.
In the case of SRCM, beside the paranoia exhibited by Babuji (see Autobiography of Ram Chandra) , one can add: megalomania, apocalyptic, spiritualist. To ask your follower to be as "living dead in the hands of a funeral director" is certainly not healthy or "normal", does not encourage taking responsibility for one's actions, and displays an autoritarianism that can be called "megalomaniacal". The SRCM relationship is typically "co-dependent". Is SRCM (California) Apocalyptic? Read here and decide. Chari expects and "anticipates" that the USA will break up and SRCM (California) has registered its Sahaj Marg Research and Teaching Institute (SMRTI) in Austin Texas. They have also purchased a 28 acre ranch or "retreat" they call "SPURS" (an instrument of pain, for a group that promotes vegetarianism) outside of Austin, Texas.
I only include the numbers that, in my opinion, obviously matches Babuji in a few cases and Chari, of SRCM (California) in many cases, directly and in some cases, indirectly. See "here" for the complete list. See how many FIT your GURU directly and/or indirectly (i.e. Chari making claims for Babuji and Lalaji and then claiming to be their "successor")
TAKE THE FALSE GURU TEST. If seven or more of the following describes your guru or spiritual teacher, then unfortunately he or she may not be be as enlightened or good for your soul as you would like to believe:
1. States his or her own enlightenment: The wisest masters tend not to state their own enlightenment or perfection for they know that it is both unhelpful to themselves and to their students. The false teachers often make this claim because they have little else on offer to attract followers.
In the case of SRCM, the current Guru of the SRCM (California) schism, makes claims of the "enlightenment" of his Guru (the "Special Personality") and even makes claims of being his "successor". When the Founder's society Board of Directors (SRCM Shahjahanpur) did not agree, Chari registered the same name in the USA and placed himself as President and Spiritual Successor of Babuji, the Founder of Sahaj Marg. He also registered a "trade mark" for SAHAJ MARG. Chari claims to be the succesor of Babuji...Babuji claims to be the successor of Lalaji. Both are disputed by the "founders society", and have been the cause of "schisms". Lalaji has his legitimate successor and society (Ramashram). And Babuji's family (SRCM Shahjahanpur), and KC Narayana of the break-away Institute of Ram Chandra Consciousness-ISRC, dispute Chari's claims of being Babuji's "Spiritual Successor" and challenge the legitimacy of SRCM(California), registered in 1997 in San Luis Obispo, California, in the USA.
2. Is unable to take criticism: False teachers strongly dislike either personal criticism or criticism of their teaching; they do not take kindly to ordinary unenlightened individuals questioning them. They or their organisations will even undertake multi-million dollar law suits to stop ex-members from spilling the beans.
Chari, in his book: "He, the Hookah and I", calls ex-abhyasis who criticise him and his "management team", and even some who have attempted to salvage some of the good parts of Sahaj Marg by opening a free and open dialogue on their blogs, of being the "enemies of spirituality". And the SRCM (California) "management team" sent out a "decree" that abhyasis were not to read the blogs, then in Mar. 18, 2007, they reversed that failed policy because of it's failure, not because of its lack of morality or ethics.
3. Acts omnipotently with no accountability: Some spiritual communities are run like concentration camps, with guru and his chosen ones acting like Gestapo officers. Unjust or outrageous behaviour by the guru is passed off as what is needed to help the followers grow (how kind). These are the dangerous gurus who have often severely damaged their students. A real master respects your will even if he or she understands that your particular decisions may not be in your interest, and he or she will act accountably to an ethical code of conduct.
Sahaj Marg demands that the abhysi's will be subject to the will of the Master and that the disciple become as a "living dead" in the hands of a funeral director. Arranged Marriages! Stand against Homosexuality as being "un-natural"! Claim and teaching to children that "GOD IS MALE" and women can't be Masters in SRCM (California), because they are not "destructive" enough. When asked for clarification, Chari said in an e-mail that the Master did work of destruction on a "cosmic level". (e-mail available on demand). It begs the question: Which part of the COSMOS does the Master of SRCM(California) destroy? Is SRCM(California) Apocalyptic? Read here and you decide
4. Focuses on enlightenment itself rather than teaching the path leading to it: It is amazing how much false gurus have to say about enlightenment. They argue their points in the same way that the scholars in the middle ages argued how many angels could sit on the head of a pin. Any fool can talk about the end goal because what is said is irrefutable to most of your listeners. What is skillful is guiding those listeners to having awakening within themselves. The real teacher focuses on the path and strictly avoids any talk on enlightenment.
At Sahaj Marg, it is called The GOAL! Chari says: Sahaj Marg has no philosophy according to Chari. The path is "obedience" and "surrender" to the 3M's of SRCM (California), the Master, the Mission and the Method. The good disciple will be like a "living dead" in the hands of a funeral director and will be able to kill without emotions like a "soldier". The really good disciple can even "kill his mother" if asked by the GURU.
5. Does not practice what is preached: Contrary to spiritual myth, you don't reach a point of realization whereby you can then start acting mindlessly. If a teacher preaches love and forgiveness, then he should act that way, at least most of the time, showing suitable regret for any lapses). If he teaches meditation, he should meditate. If he insists that his followers live in austere conditions, so should he.
Too many incidents of not practicing what is preached to list here. Love, inclusion and acceptance of "homosexuals" would be the most obvious. Calling ex-abhyasis "enemies of spirituality", and calling other religions such as "catholics" are called "liars", all religions are called "corrupt and promoting violence and war, and the "role of women who can't become "masters of SRCM, would be the other obvious examples. Why can't women be Masters, really? And where does the evidence lie for the statement that "homosexuality" is "un-natural"? Do your research before joining.
6. Takes the credit for a particular meditative or healing technique: The fact is that meditation and guided visualisation work. Anyone doing them will experience major changes, benefits and realizations. The false guru will try to own or trademark particular methods and techniques so that she has something unique to attract followers. And she will hijack the effects of meditation as the guru's blessing rather than each individuals natural potential. Often the students or followers are forbidden from divulging the techniques to maintain a sort of intellectual property right, usually under the guise of needing the technique to be taught correctly.
False claim that Transmission is UNIQUE to Sahaj Marg and was originated by "Lalaji". Babuji claimed that he became Lalaji's successor in a dream, 13 years after Lalaji's death, even though he only met him a few times, was never a preceptor or a member of Lalaji's organization, which still functions independent of SRCM (Shahjahanpur), was registered in 1945 in India. SRCM (Calfiornia) of Chari, registered in 1997, in the USA calls it's meditation "Sahaj Marg" and has registered it as a commercial "trade mark". Sahaj Marg is now a commercial "product", owned by SRCM (California) and it's current self-appointed Master, Chari.
8. Lives in total opulence: There is nothing wrong with living in luxury or being wealthy. But when that luxury turns to unnecessary opulence using funds that were not explicitly donated for that purpose then you are probably dealing with a false guru. Money is collected from followers usually in the form of donations, and those donations are given as an act of love, appreciation and to help spread the influence of the master. However, a genuine master is more likely to use such wealth to lessen the suffering in this world, not to buy another yacht, private jet or Rolls Royce.
Many complaints of favouring and appointing the "Brahmin sect", the wealthy, etc.. Spends much time in Dubai and in Mauritius, resort in the Indian Ocean. Favours the chosen "wealthy" with the "non-profit" percs such as travel, free admittance, food, etc...Notice the "golden lions" and the marble in the ashrams and schools (14 ft ceilings in classroom according to Chari).
9. Encourages or permits adoration from his followers: Avoid any group that focuses on the "master" themselves rather than the teachings or spiritual practices. This will be a hindrance to your self-realisation for your focus will be drawn outside of yourself, and usually indicates that there is not a lot more on offer than guru worship.
Not only adoration but total "obedience" and surrender to the point of "killing the mother" if asked, simply to show obedience. All responsibility for the actions of the disciple are with the Master, in SRCM(California). The will of the abhuasi will be subject to the will of the Master.
10. Presents himself or herself overly fashionably and glamorously: Beware of masters who present glamour photographs of themselves and dress overly fashionably (whilst proclaiming that they have no ego and leading ego-death retreats). Yes it does happen!
The Guru attire and the "golf cart" is "in vogue" with Chari. He is no "Mahatma Ghandi" and does not renounce the Material pleasures even as the poor are dying all around. There is no reduction of "carbon footprint" in Sahaj Marg, even to save the Planet. To find God, Abhyasis travel around the world, following Chari.
11. Demands love and devotion from their students: Keep clear of any master who demands love and devotion. One very well known Western guru stated, "Anyone who loves me is guaranteed enlightenment"! Real love and devotion is earned over time when we begin to really know the whole person and not their public image.
IN SPADES!!
15. Flatters you and treats you as very special: Sure we are all special in some ways, but this is one of the things that a false guru may do to hook a potential follower or to get a current follower to do a particular task. Nothing can be more intoxicating to the ego than to be selected by the master or leader (or any high profile person). A real master will stand back and allow you to make your decision whether to accept his or her teachings without trying to influence the process.
The flattery is with "titles" and "volunteer positions" with no power in the hope of being "favoured" by a look at the GURU. The no-power "titles" all have to do with gathering new members, and/or the menial duties of food, cleaning, or "volunteering" in all the functions of the Mission, which the "serf" is said to "own", but can't vote or have any decision-making power.
16. Talks bollocks: It is surprising what a person will listen to when he or she is devoted to the speaker. It is always a good idea to get hold of a written transcript of what has been said and really read the message. Then tell an open-minded friend who is not a follower what their opinion is purely on the strength of the words. You will soon find out whether there is any real substance to the teacher's message, or whether you are merely being drawn in by the charisma of the messenger.
Read some of his interviews and speeches...I will put a recent one as the next article on this blog.
17. Overly relies on slick presentation: Slick presentation can often mask poor content, and so it is important for you to look past the lovely music and video shows at the actual message. The slicker the presentation, the harder it is to see what exactly the teaching is.
18. Gives him or herself outrageous titles: Not satisfied by being "merely" an enlightened being, many false gurus give themselves titles (or allow their followers to do so) to indicate that they are literally God-Incarnate, the reincarnation of the Buddha or Christ, or THE chosen one. Some continually change their names, to keep pace with their burgeoning egos.
SRCM (California) and others call Ram Chandra, the founder of Sahaj Marg, the "Special Personality", a title he made up himself. Chari calls himself a "master of HUMANITY"
20. Is not interested in you personally: If a teacher or guru does not have time to interact with you personally, then you may as well read his teaching from a book, because merely being in his presence doesn't help you find realization inside you. You may model some of his spiritual characteristics, but that often only places you deeper in illusion.
Good luck!!
21. Allows his followers to set up a hierarchy of access: A guru must be accessible. If he is not, or if he allows his followers to block your access, then he is playing the role of a king and not a spiritual guide. A guru is only useful to the process of awakening if you can directly interact with him.
This is SRCM (California) to a tee.
22. Makes false claims of lineage: Many mistakenly believe that realisation can only happen under the guidance of a realized master. In this belief system, gurus are only authentic when they come from a line or lineage of realized gurus. Desperate not to be left out, some gurus claim a false lineage of enlightened masters to bolster their authority to teach. Another pseudo form of "lineage" is to recount a miracle that once happened to them (maybe they cured themselves of some disease or God spoke to them personally) which infers that they are "chosen" and therefore have the authority to set themselves up as teachers and gurus.
Read the History of Sahaj Marg in the Sahaj Marg Project for a revealing expose of the REAL history of Shri Ram Chandra Mission. This is very different from "official" party version and is corroborated by other groups and authoritative individuals. The research is exhaustive and has been quoted by others since it was released.
23. Presents themselves as non-profit whilst raking in the millions: Often, the false prophet will present her teachings for free, whilst strongly encouraging her devotees to make large donations. In this way she can appear above money considerations, whilst maintaining her greed and opulence.
Donations to SRCM (California) have reached the "million" level, by Indian supporters of the Chamber of Commerce of India, Diaspora Project in the so-called "corrupt" west.
24. Collects a large band of angry ex-followers: This is an indication that something is seriously wrong. If she has used kindness and love in her interactions with her students, and has discouraged them from projecting denied spiritual characteristics onto the guru (rather than encouraging their integration into the self), then it is extremely unlikely that there would be more than a few disheartened ex's. Many might drift away and feel they have wasted their time, but they are only likely to have the great anger if they have put their teacher on a pedestal, given him their power, and later realized that he was never worthy of such adoration. Contrary to what some believe, it is actually the teacher's responsibility to strongly discourage students from putting them on pedestals, for this is counterproductive to finding realisation inside.
There are currently enough blogs to cause the "management team" much concern. If one phone call from an "unsatisfied customer" means that there are at least 10 unsatisfied customers who don't phone, and if one letter of complaint means that there are 100 unsatisfied customers who don't write, then one blog means that there are at least over 1,000 unsatisfied ex-disciples of SRCM out there. And that is not counting the many "schisms" and their disciples, such as KC Narayana's ISRC, and SRCM (Shahjahanpur), the original society registered in India in 1945 and still controlled by the Founder's grandson, Navneet Kumar Saxena.
26. Acts like a complete paranoid mad person: If your Precious One acts like a complete paranoid schizophrenic or psychotic then he or she probably is. Run! Remember that there is no such thing as "crazy wisdom"—wisdom is the art of being balanced. However charismatic they may be, and sane between moments of madness, you WILL be damaged by them.
In the case of SRCM, beside the paranoia exhibited by Babuji (see Autobiography of Ram Chandra) , one can add: megalomania, apocalyptic, spiritualist. To ask your follower to be as "living dead in the hands of a funeral director" is certainly not healthy or "normal", does not encourage taking responsibility for one's actions, and displays an autoritarianism that can be called "megalomaniacal". The SRCM relationship is typically "co-dependent". Is SRCM (California) Apocalyptic? Read here and decide. Chari expects and "anticipates" that the USA will break up and SRCM (California) has registered its Sahaj Marg Research and Teaching Institute (SMRTI) in Austin Texas. They have also purchased a 28 acre ranch or "retreat" they call "SPURS" (an instrument of pain, for a group that promotes vegetarianism) outside of Austin, Texas.
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