Wednesday, September 17, 2008

Testimonial from Cyrille-Old Abhyasi from the French Faction of SRCM

Taken from Elodie's French Blog: Pour Que Vive le Sahaj Marg

(up-dated Sept 19, 2008...New New questions and answers at the end of the original post)

Monday, September 15, 2008

André Poray, Sister Kastury, ...

Testimonial from Cyrille

I actually started in the practice of Sahaj Marg in 1977 and I met Babuji for the first time in 1979 just before Basant.

I was very early (in life) interested in the esoteric, spirituality and religions, and when I was told about a conference in Nice (France) on spirituality I attended. A large man (André Poray) already of a certain advanced age, gave this conference, with the help of a 16mm film of average quality but the discourse was clear; just before the intermission it was proposed to listen to the chants of some Tibetan monks and to remain a few minutes in silence so as to observe our interior "state", to me, the time of listening seemed long and to say it was all "boring" (it was my first experience of such songs) a few seconds after I heard: "you can open your eyes! " I told my friends, with whom I had come, that there had been no time between the end of the music and now!... but they affirmed the contrary, laughing and saying that I must have fallen asleep (I was not convinced). The conference ended with images of his master (Babuji), a small old man, quite ordinary, in a house that was also quite ordinary, and the speaker offered that those who wanted to stay and experience this technique of meditation could do so. Same experience as before: loss of the concept of time, same amused laughter of friends, but basically, deep inside me a kind of excitement, an inside agitation difficult to define, I advised the person (Roger Voué), who had told us about the conference and who seemed to be familiar with the speaker, I talked about this strange feeling, he said nothing conclusive and I was going to to have a book that had been written by this speaker (a collection of short stories " Yang and spiritual search "), dedicated.

The man was calm with a voice a the same time strong, poised and soft, I explained to him what I had felt, he had made me sit down at his side, the time for the dedication (of the book) (with all my wishes for spiritual progress) and placed his hand on my shoulder for a few seconds, and calm returned with a premium? I do not know what more to say, but it's been in my mind ever since, to my request for more information on this technique, he asked me who had invited me to this evening and when I told him, he answered that this person was capable of telling me more.

For several weeks I came across Roger who never had time to dedicate to me, and therefore I stayed with my questions, but by dint of perseverance he finally told me: "OK, if you want to know more, in a fortnight (20 days) a person is to come to the Var in Sanary, but you should come and see me a few times before so I can explain (the system) "

I had my first three sittings (initiation) and perhaps even four, during which I did not feel anything…

(But I was very young with a thirst for extra sensory experiences hihihi... well I was disappointed.) About the explanations on the technique, it was very brief. But this impatience and this curiosity was always there.

I decided therefore to to to Sanary in the "blue center" where were presented courses of all kinds. Full accomodation was proposed at prices that were quite correct and neither registration nor nothing else was asked of me, I specify that because I can tell you that I came here on tiptoes, wondering where I was putting my feet, being by nature prudent and wary of sects and religions.

A few hundred people were there, the first impression is that they had a "normal" demeanour and were not more "enlightened" than that, and of various backgrounds, age and social milieu, but nothing unusual so far. No more decorum than that, or ostentatious ritual; the Indian person who was expected was there, in fact it was a woman of fifty years, accompanied by another Indian man who was somewhat cultured (Sister Kastury was the first person sent to Europe by Babuji), the people greeted her respectfully without more than that, but there was nothing odd.

The silent meditations appeared almost all interminable, I opened occasionally a curious eye to see all these people sitting seriously in silence, I admit that several times, I wanted to laugh being of a happy nature and somewhat mischievous and a little iconoclast at the edges (that is 30 minutes of silence), but still no sensations neither pleasant nor unpleasant. There were several organized discussions and several times this Indian sang devotional songs, accompanied by a small harmonium, (I was not, nor am I keen on these tunes, but there emanated from her and from those melodies such a dose of love for her master that even to this day I recall this memory with emotion.

During these 3 or 4 days I sympathized with several people and when it was time to leave, I was surprised to feel like a member of a family in which one said goodbye (nothing very logical in all that). Only on the way back, I felt something a little different: I had the impression of discovering the landscape, or rather the colors, shapes with a new look, as if a veil had been removed or some new glasses? (nothing much logical in all that either! let alone scientifically explainable).

Nevertheless something was produced, but nothing quantifiable or qualifiable that pushed me to persevere this process, and that until today.

NB: André Poray was one of the first European to meet Babuji in India, he did during his life, not stop talking about him and make him known, refusing any kind of proselytizing and commercial drift. He very early warned against the taking of power by Chari and he was also to receive a letter (from Chari) telling him he was no longer a preceptor of the Mission, which made us all laugh.

PS: I've never had any other master than Babuji, and I see all these older brothers as instruments in the service of the progress towards…! ( "Where religion ends, spirituality begins, where spirituality ends, reality begins, where reality ends, real bliss begins, what happens beyond that is inexpressible" Babuji)

So there! That is it for today, I will return later on the "excesses due to the commercialization of the Mission, which were already taking place, in the very early 70's. "


Cyrille said…

Thanks Elodie for following up, sorry to give you this work!

Hello everyone I will try to answer each (comments) in order.

Elodie: "You say that you've already seen commercial excesses in the 70"

I understand the confusion, I was getting ready to respond to Alexis and about the same, to Dr KC Varadachari; I have at no time observed any financial abuses in India or in Europe;

-- Regarding India my opinion (fragmented) shall consist only of my two trips 79 and 81 where I went to Shahjahanpur and Udaipur and Bombay and during these periods nothing and no one asked us for anything, an amount was indicated and given as a donation for the day but it was more than modest, the books of Babuji were printed in the courtyard of his house, at his costs, and they were also sold at cost, Babuji forbade that money be spent unnecessarily and during these many trips across India, he traveled by train, in 3rd class (which no longer exists by the way). Several times, at the beginning of the mission he was asked to accept a sharing in the cost of food. He replied "how can I ask members of my family or my own children to pay (for food)!" He resigned himself to accept when the abhyasis, during the celebrations became more and more numerous. For info, during these celebrations most of the vegetables, rice, lentils were grown on his land, the ashram was also built on this land to the detriment of his own family; Now I have seen very little from the other regions and what was going on but all my Indian friends (who also were careful not to join Chari) have never mentioned any financial abuses before his (Babuji) departure in 83 (which is not to say that there could not have been any) but all groups that have continued and continue to gather in his name gain from it no assets nor fortunes… many times older preceptors came to France and none of them have ever benefited, neither here nor at home in India. I have regularly returned to India to meet Ragavendra Rao Raïchur, Ramachandra Reddy from Cuddapah, Narayan Rao of Gulbarga, Kastury in Lucknow, Vital Rao in Bangalore, all full preceptors of Babuji and faithful to him only, none of them lives or has lived by drawing advantage from their status or notoriety, putting forward no one but their Master Babuji. Just an anecdote about Babuji's car (still visible in Shahjahanpur), a Southern Abhyasi wanted to one day to offer a car ot Babuji who had always refused to buy one, but because of his advancing age everyone advised him to accept, he remained adamant, the person then asked Babuji permission to park "for convenience" this car at the Ashram and he could use it if necessary, Babuji eventually accepted. The "icing on the cake" the license plate, with three letters and four numbers is GAG 8078. (photo available)

As far as France is concerned, from 77 to 83 I have never contributed to any "party", no collections for future gifts to Babuji (he would have hastened to refuse, I suppose), the first translations of Babuji books were made voluntarily and the prints were always sold almost at cost. I can say that during all these years I never have witnessed any financial abuse.

Elodie: "For my part, I'd like to know if you are still numerous, in these groups who have not followed Chariji, do you still meet with Sister Kastury or André Poray and if you make large gatherings, even if not on the scale of those organised by the Shri Ram Chandra Mission of Chariji. "

Yes and no, it depends on regions and compared to 83 and before and after there are no pictures! Lyon (where I live) has a large group and preceptors, Tours where I am going this Friday for a week-end meditation, in The Maritime Alps with some old and some new (abhyasis) who I see regularly, once a month (my family is still there), Paris, in the south west, Switzerland and a loyal group in Barcelona (Spain) that we meet regularly, 3 times per year, including Sanary in October where we have kept the habit of getting together.

I still see a Sister Kasturi (who is no longer very young) I'll be there this month of February after Basant, André Poray left us a few years ago (he would have been one hundred years old this year, I think) and a compilation of these letters with Babuji is being published.

4d-Don "The only evidence that we had of this period was that of Michael, who was a preceptor in the Boston area, USA, and had known Andre Poray in France ... "

I probably must have met him, but I can not put a face to the name, I remember clearly a Jim, a red-headed American from whom, I have had no news for some time.

Alexis: "What happened in France at the death of Babuji? Is it at that time that Poray received his letter of dismissal or before? "

After the death of Babuji all preceptors received a letter from their Chari intimating the order to recognize him as the Chairman of the Mission failing which they would no longer be preceptors of the mission (and could no longer TRANSMIT (more followed later)). It was only later that he proclaimed himself successor of Babuji! What heresy! Babuji said, "If I lived even one minute as the Master I would fall immediately! "Babuji never, even at the request of some, facing the drifting of a precptor, dismissed anyone:" I am here to make preceptors not for undoing them, but if a preceptor has become lost, the transmission would stop of itself."

Alexis: "I find it quite surprising that your group of meditators are still, 30 years later, unconnected with the SRCM of Chari, particularly in the Var where the preceptors of Chari are in power. "

I see nothing surprising in that, I met last year at Fatehgarh the grandson of Lalaji with which we meditated, some groups have continued to follow Lalaji without interfering with Sahaj Marg, there is not only "One way to reach the summit of the mountain". Now to me, what Chari advocates has radically nothing to do with the "simple, natural Path" of Babuji.

Alexis: "I think notably of an old "full preceptor from Sanary, buddy as a pig with Chari ... "

? I do not see anyone else than Andre Poray as full preceptor at Sanary, he was, is is true, friend with Chari, but several mail exchanges after the physical departurel of Babuji attest to the warnings concerning the turn that the Mission was taking, and very quickly, he stepped back, and broke his solidarity with the mission. It was the same for virtually all the full preceptors of Babuji.

Alexis: "Did André Poray not become involved in Buddhism? He gives that impression at his conferences. What happened to Babuji in there? "

Andre always had a weakness for the Tibetan cause and sponsored a number of centres, we were even allowed to meet Kalourimpoché in Nice where we did a meditation with him, led by Andre. At the end of this meditation, the Lama asked to see the photo of Babuji and said to the great surprise of some "small monks" being ignored at his sides "this is a great personality, this is a very good path, continue!" They were both open, one and the other, but if in some of these conferences he spoke of Tibetans or compared the different techniques or religions, he has always remained faithful to his master that he placed in front of everything. Babuji never asked (us) to renounce anything, neither interest nor passion, or religion. André was simply human, and even at the end of his life we were not eager to hear him speak of Borobudur temples or Egyptians or Tibetans I can assure you that when he stood in front of you, over 90 years old, you had the impression of being at the foot of Babuji (once we made abstraction of the physical of course). He, in my opinion, has always been a faithful tool in the hands of his master, neither more nor less.

Thank you all for your interest


Alexis said:

Alexis said ...


Thank you for answering our questions. This suggests some new ones ... including some on the Indian full preceptors. Who are they? How are they still alive? Have they created movements in India? Have they suffered attacks from the Chari's henchmen, as the children of Babuji? For the grandson of Lalaji and Kasturi, do they still have links with Chari (are they preceptors of the SRCM)? And in Europe, how many preceptors do you have? Are all old and trained by Babuji?

Cri-cri said:

Hello Cyrille,

You say "financial abuse" but Varadachari is not talking about that. He speaks of "commercialization of the mission", which is not limited to the financial aspect, but concerns the transformation of the mission and the teaching into a product used for substantive trade. His analysis is more subtle and probably references to the ideas of some megalomaniacs.

You joined the Mission in 77 when you started your practice under the guidance of Babuji. You have therefore been able to observe or hear others speak for 6 years before the death of Babuji, then...

Already, some information that you give us brings a lot of light on the history (of SRCM), very unclear for those who are in the SRCMtm. For example, that Babuji used its own land to build the ashram of Shahjahanpur and to cultivate the food he gave his abhyasis speaks volumes about his attitude, and reveals why Chari had to seize the ashram in a (alleged) criminal way. After this (alleged) act, he has demonstrated that he is an indisputable scum of the worst kind.

In France, one is familiar with scum, but kosher karshers?? (cannot translate). Unfortunately, it does not work at the top of gangrenous pyramids.

"not putting forward their Master Babuji"
The idolatrous. Do they love god as much?

"Babuji eventually accept"
Or how a master, human though he be, can be manipulated by his worshippers.

In my debut at the mission in the late 80s and early 90s, the spirit remained the same: Sales at low cost (rather than cost, there was already some testing of the waters with timid feet, to see how far they could push the cap), cost stays at extremely reasonable prices, very little administration, and as far as contributions and party member cards and/or membership number ... I do not remember. Then the infernal mazie machine started and today, it is "anything goes". There is no reason that this will not continue even further, because Chari has manipulated his followers so that he made them all "cracked". The SRCMtm is a collective delirium.

"Shri Ram Chandra Mission Chariji"
Élodie, you can say the Sri Rajagopala Chari Mission :-) because that is what it is.

"a compilation of these letters with Babuji is being done"
Cyrille, I do not know if in your group you did as the group of Narayana. All their literature is put online for free. If you have such a site, perhaps you would want to give us the address. Thanks to the Internet, books can be released for free, toll-free printing.

"All thepreceptors have received a letter from their Chari intimant order to recognize it as the chairman of the mission failing which they would no longer tutor of the mission"
The little tyrant at work. But what a crook, the more I learn about this character, the more I am repulsed by this piece of garbage. Who does he work for?

"and could no longer pass (this followed later)"
Of course, this is terrorism. Remember, he (Chari) admitted that when Babuji died, he believed that the transmission would not work anymore. :-) That is to say, if he had any understanding of the spiritual dimension at all. That is like saying that he was doubtful of his level of realization, and that is like saying that he had some guilt on his conscience. In short, a small confession that speaks volumes.

"It was only later that he proclaimed himself successor of Babuji"
And today, Babuji is relegated to second place, and more. Lalaji, is in oblivion. (Lalaji had a) Miraculous birth, and descended from heaven to bring "transmission" to humankind then "ciao" (bye). I just simplified.

"I am here to make preceptor not to undo them, but if a preceptor has become lost, the transmission would cease of itself. "
Possible, that is quite mechanical, but ignorant as we are, we are making of it something magical. If we knew, we would probably not fall any more under the thumbs of crooks. Shame on them to exploit human ignorance.

"It was the same for virtually all full preceptors by Babuji."
But Cyrille, you do not understand! You, like me, like all these people, we had a crisis of ego and have plummeted, as I have been told, and been excluded by our super-ego. :-) In addition to being an impostor, he is a manipulator and a thief, he is a liar. What divine qualities in this remarkable person!!

"Babuji never asked (anyone) to renounce anything, neither interest, nor passion, nor religion."
Just as Lalaji, and unlike Chari. They first practiced Sufism, whose goal is not to cut the individual from his life and his environment, but to integrate him/her fully and more and more openly, to infinity. The spiritual path is not the sectarian path of power and fear that Chari follows.

Hoping to read you again.


Elodie said:

Hello Cyrille,

Thank you for your prompt response, which has already provoked reactions. To remarks by Cricri Alexis, I add my own.

It seems to me that Dr. Varadachari was concerned with Babuji about a search for quantity to the detriment of quality, he felt especially concerning the number of practitioners but perhaps also the risk that spirituality would drown in the material aspects that were becoming more and more important with the number of followers. I can not remember having heard of commercial abuses or of the marketing of the Mission (unless if it was about the number of people (in the Mission)).

I am surprised to discover so many groups loyal to Babuji of which I had never heard. All the places you mention are also home to large communities that are faithful to Chariji. Is there not a mixture of both, some contributors and some not?

Has your group formalized itself, do you have "leaders" or personalities that are more charismatic than others since the death of Mr Poray? And to extend the remark by Alexis on your preceptors, if not all very aged because they were appointed by Babuji, who appoints new ones?

Finally, where can we get a compilation of the letters exchanged between Andre Poray and Babuji?

Very affectionately,


Martin said:

Good evening all, and Cyrille.

Your testimony is relevant with clarity and simplicity.

It takes us back to an important issue; what makes the difference between "transmissions"? Is it the sender or the receiver? Is it quantitative and/or quality?

I could hear in your account, the testimony of an experienced meditator (not an adherent of SCRM), confiding that she recognized that the transmission quality was exceptional!

When Babuji said, "I am here to make preceptors not to un-make them, but if a preceptor had become lost, the transmission would stop of itself. " Should we understand that the transmitter was really the "hands-on" of this transmission?

If so, how can the followers of Chari feel a transmission "HD" if the antagonism between Babuji and Chari is well proven? The quality of the transmission could be independent of the level of spiritual realization of the Master!

Seen from outside this process seems more and more crazy.

The testimony of Cyrille underscores the distinction between Babuji and Chari, beside the fact that the latter continues to claim his spiritual lineage from Babuji, and that such a deception would not hinder the quality of "his" transmission?

Or is it not simply sufficient to create the "myth" so as to open one's own frequency, and the abyasis do the rest….

It would be very interesting to hear the views of abyasis who would have known and practiced with both, is this still possible?

The first key to a possible awakening, in relation to all these abuses, is certainly in understanding these mysterious transmissions.

The second is also in setting the absence of a clear "spiritual" link between Babuji and Chari, often mentioned but not synthesized enough.

Without "AOC" the latter would probably be significantly weakened…


Cyrille said ...

Whaouu…! I, who usually do not write! and type with 2 fingers, finally! re Hello everyone

I will try to reply to everyone!

Reply to Alexis: Full preceptors! by Babuji and faithful alone:

-- Ragavendra Rao of Raïchur passed away 3 years ago, he was a beacon of persons for all those in India and Europe who have remained faithful to Babuji and alone (even if the marks of deference and respect in India are very different from ours and even shocking (Babuji did not like this cultom of touching his feet and pushed off all attempts by those wanting to kiss (his feet) The Ashram (the building) of Raïchur was the last place taken over by the people of Chari and that with arms and in complicity with the police.

--Ramachandra Reddy from Cuddapah also died last year.

--Narayan Rao east of Gulbarga still in good health, (idiom: "steady foot & good eyes") and still travelst to different centres in India, but his age (87ans) did not allow him to come and see us this year.

--Vital Rao in Bangalore is still among us and I must go and see him at the beginning of the year.

--Sister Kastury of Lucknow withdrew ages ago from Chari's Mission, and with a public speech that won her a lot of trouble, the grandson of Lalaji has also withdrawn and has clearly explained it to us last year. But where Chari plays with finesse, is in keeping them on the list preceptors of the mission, despite many requests by Kasturi to no longer appear on the rosters of the SRCM… in India she has had, and still has such a impact (seing what Babuji wrote and said about her) that he (Chari) can not cut such an image (the defection of Ragavendra Rao, André Poray and these all these many preceptors had raised many questions at the time)

--Dr Rao Shiam of Gulbarga has taken a step back, I must also meet him soon.

--Vital Rao Bangalore affectionately nicknamed the Judge (a former judge of the high court of Bangalore) he is still of this world even if the weight of years (-85) is keenly felt, he stills chairs some satsangs and some large annual meetings.

--Dr Srivastava has taken a slightly seperate path, wanting to "mix" science and spirituality, we have explained our respectfully disagreement, but I keep a lot of friendship for him. He has at one time assumed the administrative burden and the presidency of the mission that was dissenting from that of Chari, (before he (Chari) appropriated the name and placed a "tm" (Trade Mark) on it) during this period he "created" new preceptors. Apart from Sister Kastury who was the only one to my knowledge to have "made" preceptors under the responsibility and instructions of Babuji (letters and many testimonies corroborate this) and continues to do so very rarely, none of full preceptors cited above did so.

None of them, in my opinion, has in the proper (or dirty) sense of the term created a truly "real movement". The meetings, including the Basant or the anniversary of the mission always gathers several hundred people in large centres (hyderabad, bangalore, lucknow, etc…) in a collegial and more or less informal organizing of the celebrations.

As for the children Babuji, that is yet another case; Servech the youngest, (the other two are no longer of this world) is the only remaining son, and he lives in Shahjahanpur, he - joined Chari (who made him a preceptor, him and his wife!) despite his position against him (Chari) at first, but he allows all abhyasis coming on behalf of his father to come to Shahjahanpur, Chariiste or not (I went last year for the marriage of his son that I knew since he was small, and went back with a small group a month later). He also asked me to direct satsangs on the spot in the house of his father.

Ahhh! the PRECEPTEURS!! What errors were committed…… and ideas received.

I will try to give you my point of view while trying to respect what Babuji said. He said: "being a preceptor is a duty and not an honorific title or any indication of one's spiritual level" I could get a donkey to do the job (gag) "(I will research the precise text).

But to give you an idea: if you're thirsty, you go to the tap to quench your thirst, but what removes the thirst, the tap or the water? even in the absence of the tap water always finds a way to pass.

The preceptor is a tool and the more the tool is forgetful of its "small person" the more the transmission is efficacious. Babuji: "the tutor is primarily an abhyasi, he is only a preceptor during the time of transmission, he must lead by example." The valve must be as clean as possible. One day I received this answer: "be His instrument and keep the instrument clean" a rusty tap stains the water, water is always water but what is added consciously or unconsciously makes it difficult to be assimilated and/or unfit for consumption.

Many people, and that from the outset desired this title! even up to writing to him about this and all those who were waiting never became preceptors, Babuji saving them from a fatal outbreak of ego. I learned after his (Babuji) departure that they had almost all been made preceptors by Chari (what lack of discernment !!!). And even preceptors made by Babuji have fallen into the trap of ego, but must we cast stones at them?: who is responsible (there is no guilty party) the abhyasi preceptor whose pride swells or the abhyasi who adulates and glorifies the preceptor thereby giving him the feeling of being important.

The same goes for Chari, I feel, in some (I had some too), a lot of anger towards him, do they resent having been fooled by him or do they resent themselves for having allowed themselves to be fooled?

Reply to Anonymous:

"not putting anyone above them but their Master, Babuji"

The idolatrous. Do they Love God as much?

If one considers Babuji under its physical aspect and that we put that above, then yes, there may be, and there have been idolatry! But if you see and "attach yourself" to the the hand of God in him, so there you place the Divine above; one day an abhyasi came to Babuji and said: "Teacher! you must be content, several thousand people will be there for Basant". Babuji: "yes, but how many are genuine abhyasis, "they come to see me but leave without having seen me!" He did not speak of his physical form, but the perception of the divine dimension that people did not see, recreating a new pious image and ritualising the technique.

Ask yourself this question: why have so many people followed Chari after the death of Babuji?

All were in a form of emotional dependence on the Master, then taken as the idealized father. They found what he sought: a guru (goure where?) Alive! Hence the creation of a myth, necessary for a spiritual advancement, a Living Master (Master living) but Babuji was not "dead" transmission is always available to anyone who wants to experience it, and that the new abhyasis I rub shoulders with, can tell you, even those like me who do not feel anything, they see the effects in their daily lives without being disconnected from reality, quite the contrary.

"Babuji eventually accept"
Or how a master, human, can be manipulated by its worshippers.

I'm not sure anyone could have manipulated Babuji, but in the case of this car, he never wanted to accept anything for himself, it became the car of the mission, which served not only for his displacements from home to the station or to the ashram, but for all seniors or physically challenged, that needed to be picked up at the station (there were no taxis at the time, nothing but bicycle rikshaws).

Cyrille, I do not know if in "your" group ...

Beware of words that are used: "YOUR" : Possessive adjective. Babuji never said MY abhyasis and Preceptors, those who cavalierly use "my group, my work, my centre" run towards a chronic and pathological megalomania.

Letters with Babuji literature put online for free

The idea is not only ecological but completely fair, but we have never had a site, the setbacks with Chari's group have made us discreet. Now I am far from being a virtuoso on computers and any assistance would be welcome.

Reply to Elodie:

All the places you mention also home to large communities loyal to Chariji. Is there not a mixture of both, each contributor and the other not?

That is hihihi, there has never been any mixing, Chari's people flee from us like the plague, maybe they are considering a flat "ban" from meeting with us for fear of learning some truths that are not always good to hear, much like the "prohibition" form visiting your dissident (web) sites. Also, having never made any recruitement, I myself have never sought to meet the abhyasis of Chari.

Has your group formalized itself, are there "leaders" with more charismatic personalities than others since the death of Mr Poray?

No leaders, but a few old abhyasis, and no formality at all.

About your preceptors, if they are not all aged because they were appointed by Babuji, who appoints new ones?

You have part of the answer above, but on April 77, I was 19 ½ years old, and many preceptors at the time were young, do not bury us too fast ;-)

Well, I leave you, your friendly! (Curtis and Moore) the ancients will understand!! ;-)


Alexis Said:

Cyrille @

Passionnant! (Passionately Interesting)

You speak very little of the descendants of Babuji, however navneet kumar saxena is in court with Chari and his father umesh chandra Saxena was also before him… Prakash also opposed Chari, as his son Charad: what has become of them now?

You do not say a word about KC narayana, the son of Dr. Varadachari, who created his own movement. Are you in contact? According Narayana, Kasturi was initially in favor of Chari and against umesh chandra Saxena. SA Sarnad re-"turned his coat" in a few weeks.

The son of Dinesh Kumar Saxena (grandson of Lalaji) follows Chari faithfully, it is true that he "bosses" in a company headed by a close contact of Chari…

Dr. Srivastava has established an association in Belgium: Shri Ram Chandra Memorial International Society Promoting Spirituality As A Science (INSPSAAS), do you know this?

Suresh Kumar Makam, a disciple of raghavendra rao, created a blog, do you know this?

"Pandit ji, a disciple of Kasturi has also created a blog. Do you have the speech where she "burns" Chari?

André poray has toured with Dr. Hans gangloff. Did you know?

Are there still other major personalities (full precepteurs) in France, Europe and India? Did donald sabourin belong to this group?

Cyrille Said: (Sept 19, 2008)

Bonsoir Elodie, here is a short "mumble" , (Yes to a hand (help) with the computer! We will remember that when I'm back!)

Cyrille: Response to Alexis:

Umesh had also self-proclaimed himself successor to his father, prohibiting anyone access to the ashram including his brother Servech !!!!!!!!,

Prakash's wife lives in Lucknow and regularly goes to satsangs at Kasturi.

I do not know the son of Dr. Varadachari me but if you communicate these details I will be in India February March!

For Dinesh Kumar and Dr Shrivastava you have my answer.

I have not seen Suresh's blog yet, if he is the same person which I think he is, then his is in Bangalore, and is a businessman! and I will see during this next trip.

I have, I think, crossed Pandit ji in Lucknow, Kasturi explained to me what had transpired and talked to me about this speech.

Dr. Hans Gangloff has joined Chari, he was nice and I had a good visit with him in Munich during the visit of Babuji, there! that's good!

Donald Sabourin: unknown to this battalion!

Cyrille: Response to Martin:

What makes the difference between (different) "transmissions"? Is it the sender or the receiver? Is it quantitatively and/or quality?

Both my Captain!

Starting from the postualte based on an assumption that the person (Babuji) would have gone back to the source, the origin, bouma!….! He would then transmit from there an energy X, relayed by preceptors. I keep my metaphor of "water and tap". If the receiver (abhyasi) considers or did not see anything but the human transmitter, he/she then restricts him/herself the flow and the water quality. It will be likewise if he/she deifies, "idolizes", "superman-izes"… he/she adds his/her own color!

"But if a preceptor should get lost, transmission would stop of itself. "
Should we understand that the issuer has really "hands on" this transmission?

Now ditto for the abhyasi and/or the preceptor, if the faucet is rusty the water flow will stop by itself.

The analysis is only worth what it is worth.

I will come back in greater detail on the particulars of the various feelings in different transmissions if you wish, but I leave tomorrow for a long weekend, and I can't respond until Monday evening, Good weekend to you all.

Cyrille's reply to Cri-cri

PS: Mazi? never heard of that... can you light my lantern?


Cri-Cri said:

mazi = World Socialism. (World in French= Monde)

Neologism in parallel to the Nazi or "National Socialism"

The same kind of underworld but worse than that because it is everywhere.

And I will stop there because this blog is for another matter.


Cyril said ...:

Bonjour to all

After a superb weekend of meditation in Tours here I am more fit than ever!
I'll try to answer you!

4d-Don and Alexis:

- Questions about the family of Babuji ....

During his lifetime I have never seen any of his children attend a satsang (and all the old Indians will confirm that for you), which surprised many Europeans, they did not seem concerned with spiritual things, at the death of their father things changed, specially for Umesh the self- proclaimed Master and the spiritual successor of his father. (The king is dead long live the king!)
Going as far as to create and build a school and clinic in the courtyard of the Ashram!! and refusing access to anyone who did not recognize him as such!! (Does this not remind you of something!) (I myself was refused entry three years ago along with an Indian abhyasi, a childhood friend of the son and daughters of Babuji, by the son of Umesh who was there and did not even agree to receive us, despite a letter of introduction by a very old preceptor, well known to his own father!)

Now at least anyone who wants access to the house of Babuji, etc ... his room. including theAshram, can come without swearing an oath of obedience to whomever or whatever. (at last).

- Attacks, poisoning ...

I would not want to go into an endless questioning or to give "body" to things of the past for which I have no answer and may never have: "Who killed who? Who tried what? For me, and I repeat Babuji is always present and anyone who wants to experience him is welcome!

Let me explain:

What is important is the here and now, how to be ... more in line with what I feel and what I believe, while remaining open (and wanting) to any new experience that would corroborate, confirm, these feelings and these beliefs or deny or amend them. I can tell you about him, you talk about my experience but I do not want to fuel the controversy and thus play into Chari's game. Babuji was not a criticizing person, I just want to follow his example, he was of such simplicity and humility.

It seems to me that Dr. Varadachari concerned with Babuji a search for quantity rather than quality ...

... Proselytizing.

I confirmed and better understood the "concerns" of Dr Varadachari:
Proselytizing is a natural process from the desire to share and is difficult to ignore. If this applies to adepts of the "hot apple pie", this has little consequence except for an indigestion ;-)! But applied to a creed, dogma, religion ... we know the "driftings over the centuries !!!».

Babuji always said: 'I'm not there to make abhyasis, but to make Masters." "Sahaj is not for everyone" but he also said that Sahaj Marg was made for humanity. There is not contradiction there, I think!

If I took the metaphor of the mountain that humans seek to climb to the summit, representing God.

Religions are the prerogative of all and are in the plains.
Sects and "gurus" of all kinds are in the foothills.
The various schools of spirituality would be a bit higher still.
Reality and Real Beatitude respectively would be increasingly closer to the Goal.

Throughout the climb from "base camps" there are on the road guards as well as shelter and Sherpa guides to take you, or to chart the path to the next camp. All and all levels have their utility in the big game of Life! And kindergarten teachers have neither more nor less value or merit as the lecturer at the University. The kindergarten, primary school, secondary school and so on are almost necessary stages.

The Sahaj marg is not the only way nor the best way to reach spiritually! (it is for me and I experience it with more discerning and objectivity as possible, but I am just one individual among billions of others.)

The researcher, journeyer, can stop along the way, speed up, slow down, he is free to remain entangled even in the context of strong individual base camps. We can only smile and show that we continue the path we set.

In my opinion (Babuji and many others have said the same thing) the only responsibility we have is to ourselves, to continue to grow and the more we progess, the more the divine flame in our heart will shine (without applying any human will) it will lead inexorably to other researchers, creating a stream of increasing power.

I said that many old abhyasis have after the departure of the physical Babuji, felt the transmission even more , let me add that more and more in recent years as our abhyasis brothers and sisters progress, the more we experience the power of this omnipresent energy.

The transmission of this energy is not an exclusive TM of Sahaj marg!

A hiker, after an exhausting march, who comes before a mountain lake, experiences receiving this energy of nature. Two people who meet and who are the object of "love at first sight" also experience a transfer, an exchange of energy.

Meeting Mother Teresa or sister Emmanuelle one is permitted or allowed to have this experience.

Leaning on a hundred-year old tree, one can obtain energy from the earth.

Now comes the question of determining qualify, quantifying the vibrational levels of these various energies and in the absence of sufficient mechanical devices that to my knowledge are not available at this time, is problematic.

Here is my opinion:

Already, any plant, animal or person radiates its own energy, this can be photographed (Kirlian effect). Every human being as long as it takes conscience can "transmit" his/her own energy (magnetic, healers, Reiki, voodoo, the list goes on ... I overlook better examples). The more people "elevate themselves" and thereby increasing their capacity the more the currant will appear or be perceived as strong. But again, a strong current of transmission is not necessarily a guarantee of quality. So how does one seperate things?

The transmitter (person) should be aligned with what he/she is supposed to be (relationship between words and deeds) and make people want to know them better.

the more transmission comes from a more advanced level, it should be seen as subtle, light and even if it seems powerful, the state that results should be subtle and light. Babuji would ask, after meditation to stay a few minutes in silence to "ruminate" our state, feel the difference before and after. If this was done, it prevents states of heaviness, headache ... taken for normal or is explained by a poor job by the abhyasi (guilt).

Gradually the practice should perceive some changes in himself, without drastic sacrifice, without mortification of self and without guilt. Babuji has never banned, he advised, suggested, he often told a "small" story, a metaphor that "fit to a tee", the person for whom it was intended.

Never discernment, critical thinking, or attention should disappear from the spirit of the abhyasi, Babuji: "I do not want to make sheep, but lions! "I'm not there to make abhyasis butMasters! ".

Last thing: the state felt, ruminated on (subtle, light, quiet) after the meditation should be a state of resource, to be kept as long as possible or to find the vibration of Divine love and recharge oneself at all times of day, it is just that, constant remembrance (real sense of purpose or practice). While knowing, and keeping in mind that this is transitory (do not fasten oneself thereto), and many other states remain to be discovered.

Well, I leave you, hoping to read you.


Tuesday September 23, 05:07:00 PM


Anonymous said...

HI 4d-Don, and anyone else who is reading this,

Do you know if any of the original Babuji group are in the U.S., and possibly conducting satsangh or sittings?


4d-Don said...

Hi Anonymous (from the Yukon?)...

Michael is the oldest preceptor I know from the USA (Texas). Michael, who also met some of Lalaji's preceptors, is an old preceptor appointed by Chari, was present at the take-over by Chari, and has since left Sahaj Marg.

Michael was a member of the publishing and editing team in the US, and now has a blog: Inner Circle of SRCM at

You might get some info from him by going directly to his blog ...

I will re-post your (and my) comment in my most recent article on this blog... the one about the London Ashram development

Someone may reply from those who read my current material ... I suspect that very few re-read old article like this one ... or the comments there-in.