Thursday, February 04, 2010

Lalaji Had a Master! Hujur from the Naqshbandia (Silsila) Sufi Order!

This exchange of e-mails came after my reading Dr. R.K. Gupta's site: Sufi Saints and Sufism and specifically the sections on NaqshMuMRa Stream of Sufis (Lalaji's Lineage in the Naqshbandia Sufi Order), and Sufism in India. Unlike the false statements by the Sahaj Marg Founder, Babuji, who allegedly (according to Chari) claimed that Lalaji had no master, a statement which has been repeated by Chari, now the President of the SRCM (California-1997) a schism of the original SRCM (Shahjahanpur-1945),
Dr. Gupta's site claims that Shri Ram Chandra of Fatehgarh, (aka Lalaji) was a disciple of Maulana Fazl Ahmad Khan (Hujur or Hujoor Maharaj), a Master of the Naqshbandia (Silcila) Sufi Order.

Below see some quotes by Lalaji ... (taken from ORKUT Community: Freedom From Sahaj Marg)... compare them to the current philosophy of Sahaj Marg(tm), and the SRCM (California-1997) of Chari. Rememberl... Lalaji had 212 disciples in all and nine preceptors (Babuji was not one of them...see why here or if document is missing, see here or here ) ... Lalaji was a "hands on" Master and not a CEO of a pyramidal Corporation of Meditators operating as the AMWAY of Spirituality ... (one higher up in SRCM (California-1997) is an AMWAY distributor).
This is also confirmed on the NaqshMuMRa Nexus (or see here or here) site of Dinaysh Kumar Saxena, grandson of Lalaji and Dean of the NaqshMuMRa Sufi branch of the great Naqshbandia (Silsila) Sufi Order.

rkgupta (address blanked out)
Sent: Fri, 22 January, 2010 5:02:31 AM
Subject: correction...

Dear RK Gupta...

I humbly present this sentence from your article at the above link, specifically in the last lines of the section on Maulana Fazl Ahmad Khan (Hujur Maharaj), Master of Shri Ram Chandra of Fatehgarh, (aka Lalaji)...
"The Naqshbandi Sufi way has reached far and wide, in every nook and corner of India and also abroad through the grace of Mahatma Ram Chandraji and efforts made by his disciples, especially Mahatma Chaturbhuj Sahayji and Mahatma Ram Chandraji of Sahajahanpur (founder of Shri Ram Chandra Mission) and his disciple Shri Rajagopalachari."
In light of these two links, your comments and/or an amendment or a correction to this sentence would clarify my (and other's) confusion... Babuji and Chariji are not spreading the "Sufi way" but are "usurping" it, and denigrating and denying the Sufi influence in their Sahaj Marg, claiming it to be a "modified Raja Yoga", and even claiming the the other systems have "breathe their last", to be replaced by "Sahaj Marg", as the only true path (they claim) ...
Do you endorse this statement by Babuji?

Letter from Ram Chandra of Shahjahanpur:
Epitome of Sahaj Marg, by Dean of NaqshMuMRa, grandson of Lalaji: (or see here or here)

Thank you and Blessings on you and your family...


Dr. R.K. Gupta's reply:

From: rkgupta (address blanked out)
To: don
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: correction...

Dear Mr. don,

Thanks for your mail.

There is a lot of substance in what you have said, as some people have forgotten about the roots. No matter by whatever name one may call it, it is only through the grace of great Masters that they have achieved what they claim to be their own.

Kind Regards,


Don's Reply:

To: R.K.Gupta
Sent: Fri, 22 January, 2010 1:25:11 PM
Subject: Re: correction...

Mr RK Gupta..
I feel that publishing your reply to my queery may help clarify or re-elucidate for my readers, the "direction" and the depth of Lalaji's teachings as opposed to the teachings of some others who call themselves his "followers" and from his "lineage". Some having met Lalaji but a few times and some not at all, they still seem to speak and teach a different teaching, relate a different history and claim his lineage without his permission in "REALITY", except in dreams, even claiming to having knowledge (or hearsay?) that Lalaji had "no master", which we now know to be erroneous thanks to sites like yours.

Do I have your permission to publish your e-mail reply, along with these exchanges, on my blog?



Dr. R.K. Gupta's reply:

rkgupta (address blanked out)
Sent: January 22, 2010 12:06 AM
Subject: Re: correction...

Dear Mr. Don,

Thanks for your mail again.
You may go ahead with publishing my reply on your blog if you so wish.

With Kind Regards,


Quotes by Lalaji (taken according to Rajan-ex abhyasis of SRCM (California-1997) from a current member of Chari's clan!

See how Lalaji's Sufi path differs from the Sahaj Marg and the attitude of Chari and his disciples!! Remember, Lalaji had 212 disciples in all, so he could give personal attention to all, unlike the "MacDonald's" (fast food) or the Amway (pyramid scheme) Mass marketing, multi-layered approach of SRCM (California-1997) under Chari and his Management team of Businessmen! ... As the Master of SRCM (California-1997) is out developing the business, the preceptors are "transmitting" whatever !! "Divine" they call it!! If Lalaji's method of meditation was as "great" as the great man himself, remember that he did not use the "Sahaj Marg" of Babuji as his "Method" and had nothing to do with the creation of the Shri Ram Chandra Mission !!

Lalaji's Birth day celebrations during Feb. 2010

My Dear Brothers n Sisters,

I would like to enlighten you about Lalaji's Teachings :

1) Never offer advice unless invited, otherwise it is likely to yield bad results.
2) If you find any fault with anybody, pray for his freedom from it.
3) Don't purchase a new thing if you can manage to carry on with your old belonging.
4) A slave of women and a greedy person could never perform acts of Paramartha.
5) The inner and outer condition of an abyasi have to be the same.

6) Spiritual perfection to be based on three things :
1) Love for the master
2) Satsangh with the master.
3) Obedience to the master.

7) The real sadhana is to balance the mind.
8) Avoid becoming a master and serve as a servant should.
9) Avoid the company of the rich, women and children. (It seems that Sufism is meant for adult men only... Babuji also did not want dogs (animals) and children around the meditation rooms and halls)
10) You have only to remove the doubt whether God and Atma exist or not. If you have freed yourself of this, you need not have a Guru.
11) The search for God and soul is natural and this is imbecility. This fantasy can be cured by another fantasy who is Guru.
12) Atheist is not a person who does not believe in God. Those who harm the physical, mental, intellectual and spiritual existence are atheists. (How does one not harm the physical when one eats and assimilates or transforms the physical? Plants have feelings too, and are said to experience pain, and fear, according to recent research)



Anonymous said...

Instead of wasting your time If I were you I would try to know the mystery of the creation.I have met babuji when I was young and was initiated by him in 1983 when I was 19 yrs old. I still follow him and not any of his decendents.let me answer you the question about lalaji.Babuji has clearly stated that lalaji had no births before and he himself has stated about the ocean merging with the drop when he visited his master.His master was expressing himself through him and so was all the othe masters including Krishna.He was in a state of tam meaning was just the space in which gods powers in the form of ancient powers were getting expressed.Babuji inherited everything his master possessed for he was in that state of tam also.The state of tam simply means a state of complete negation and god can express himself fully through him and this state is possible for every human.To understand this you need an able master and you have missed an oppertunity

4d-Don said...

Hi "anonymous" who has entered my space... (virtual)

You are wasting your time by telling me that I am wasting mine. Now I have to reply to you which is now a waste of time, you must think!! Don't try PROPHESY... they will self-fulfill.

But you are not wasting your time by giving your opinion here, and neither am I wasting mine.

MOTION, measured as TIME is wasting you and me ... and eroding matter and energy by using it, in MOTION, and we know that Time is the illusion and MOTION is the reality and ALL is in MOTION... along with its CREATIVE (a proces).

Yes, you can conditionally speculate on what you would do IF you were me, but you are not me, and you have all you can handle by being you. You claim to know the mystery of creation as you seem to want to tell me what it is, but ...

You are following Babuji in your mind as Babuji is dead since 1983. You are actually following the writings and your impression of what Babuji said and wrote.

You can claim to know his "spiritual state" but that is also highly speculatiive. Are you another "master" too, to know all this as you claim??

Lalaji does not claim to have not had a birth before!! And his sufi lineage seems to have integrity (free from a lot of the material, which burdened his lineage since the 15th century). I believe Dinesh, and Dr. Gupta on his site about Sufism in India, and Lalaji and his lineage. (see above). Lalaji's Master and lineage is clearly stated there.

Dinesh's Epitome of Sahaj Marg has also revealed Babuji's relationship to Lalaji up to one year before Lalaji's death.

If I were you, I would try and get the Lalaji's disciples to follow Babuji and not waste you time with me... As I see it, Lalaji's lineage is still in operation and they, who were close to him, have not closed their society and become followers of Chari or any of this "schism" (division) from the Sufi teachings of Lalaji and then inside itself. One also notices that the "whispers" from Babuji and Lalaji are not accepted in Lalaji's Sufi Society. They don't seem to have a MEDIUM in their own midst... Do they not believe in that type of SPIRITUALISM, and its messages from the dead??

What you have just told me about TAM, I understand ... and I did not need anyone ... Now I don't believe it but I understand it. I don't think REALITY is that!! Not at dawn, not at dusk or at noon. There is a French saying: "Ne cherchez pas midi a quatorze heures." (Don't look for noon, at 2 PM). That is wasting your and my time!! Another Saying: "By their fruit ye shall know them"!!

Make Peace in your self and then you can teach to others...and not "at" others!! But your myths are yours, not REALITY's...

4d-Don said...

Hi again...

I have a few more minutes to waste ... lol lol

You claim:

"The state of tam simply means a state of complete negation and god can express himself fully through him and this state is possible for every human.To understand this you need an able master and you have missed an oppertunity"

You falsely insinuate that God is a male, "himself", and not an "IT" (neutral or Zero) which can include the masculine and the feminine ... so you must be a disciple of Chari, who also teaches that to the kids .... Babuji was more "Bhuddist" in his beliefs.

If God was really expressing "himself" fully through Babuji as well as through Lalaji, then Babuji would be a SUFI just like Lalaji! Babuji was never called a SUFI by others or by himself. But Lalaji was. Is your "male" god a DUALITY which expresses ITself differently in two "vessels" ...
Should the TRUTH not be ONE!!

Oh! The snares and the foibles of SPIRITUALISM!! From ONE to TWO in God means that one has drifted from SPIRIT (not spirits as in "spiritualism"), to MATTER, which can be expressed as "dual".

You must meditate on "light" which as Einstein had shown is "equivalent" to matter in his E-mc2. To see God being dual, would also mean that TRUTH is dual!! And, if we continue on such a "bad road" we (you) will begin the falsehoods, the inventions, the stories, the tales, the myths!!!

It's all a MYTH!!

That was fun and it was not a waste of time at all ...