Friday, January 26, 2007

Lalaji and His Many Successors

Lalaji and its multiple successors


Here a non-exhaustive list of personalities and organizations which contributed to diffuse the teaching of Lalaji and its Sufi Master Hujur Maharaj, drawn up by Alexis as well as extracts of Babuji's autobiography selected by Christian on his (Babuji's) name, his bonds with Islam and his definition of the "ego".

Thank you for your research!

I. Ramashram Satsang

My summary is based on Internet sites

All three declare that their founder was Dr. Chaturbhuj and that the current Master is his son Hemendra KUMAR ji.

I point out that according to NaqshMuMRa Nexus, there are other Ramashram Satsang's in Sikandarabad (with Shrikrishna Lal), Gazhiabad, Shyam Nagar or Jaipur (with Thakur Singh Ji). What follows relates only to Ramashram Satsang, Mathura.

One day (unknown date), Lalaji transmitted divine knowledge and the tool of sadhana to Dr. Chaturbhuj Sahai Ji (1883-1957). Lalaji charged him with the task of contributing to diffuse it in 1919. This is why Dr. Chaturbhuj created Ramashram Satsang in 1923 in Etah, then moved in 1951 in Mathura (Uttar Pradesh - India). It based its system of meditation on the teaching of this new sadhana, called “Naveen Sadhana” by Lalaji. In its principle, it places the responsibility entirely on the guru and not on his disciples. The guru will allow the spiritual elevation of the disciple thanks to his own spiritual power. From his heart the divine capacity in the form of light to the heart of the disciple will emanate by erasing the impurities there at the same time. That does not demand any conscious effort on the part of the disciple. The only thing which is required of him/her is to come into daily contact with his/her guru by the means of the meditation (dhyan).

In practice, this must take place in the morning, the evening and before sleeping by concentrating the will on heart chakra (“will heart-chakra”). The message of Lalaji is summarized in 8 points on

- Prayer is the food of the human spirit
- To constantly feel the presence (of the Guru or God) and in all the situations constitutes true knowledge
- To be happy in any situation is the quintessence of the duty of the human being
- Don’t hurt anyone. Keep heart clean of desireshurt anyone. To maintain its heart with the shelter of the desires
- To avoid the company of the unbelievers
- It does not have a reason there to posture. Our objective is that our Guru or God remains happy and to live according to its will
- Strive towards selfless service for all humankind and avoid taking help from others
- Pray - God, please fill me up with your devotion

From the point of view of the origins of this method, things are more confused. Huzur Maharaj, a great Moslem Sufi saint, would have taught these techniques to Lalaji by saying to him that they came from the Hindus who had forgotten them: “Come to me. I shall teach you spirituality. It belonged to Hindus but they have it no more.”

This teaching modified by Lalaji would come from a practice preached by the Bhagvat Geeta, using the techniques of Patanjali, as well as the lessons of Kabir and Guru Nanak Devji. The bibliography recommended is a book of Dr. Chaturbhuj “Yog Philosophy and Naveen Sadhana” - Sadhan Press (Dampier Nagar, Mathura - 281001 - UP - India)

They created a newsgroup on:

One thus finds the various influences listed by Madeleine (on Elodie's Blog:, an Indian Sufism which seized upon old hindu practices (yoga of Patanjali, Kabir, himself inspired by Islam, and Sant Mat, radhasoami or other (Nanak Dev. Ji and once again Kabir, Sikhism).

Dr. Chaturbhuj does not claim to be the only representative of Lalaji, he contributes to the spreading of his (Lalaji's) teaching… him among others. What it does not say to us is: does the meditation make it possible to the disciples to go in the “central area”? But I do not know myself what it (the central region) is or what that can resemble. The spiritual researchers that visit are may perhaps be able to enlighten me a little… Otherwise, one finds the majority of the elements present in Babuji's Sahaj Marg: meditation centered on the heart, cleansing of impurities, constant remembrance, devotion, etc

Differences: the responsibility of the guru, the absence of conscious effort of the disciple apart from the practice of the meditation.

II. Thakur Saheb Shri RAM Singh Ji and Ramashram Sansthan

Gathered starting from the data resulting from the website of Mr. Arvind Jolly, metallurgist engineer and son of a disciple of Thakur Saheb (
one can contact him directly via:
and of the data resulting from the website of RK Gupta, apparently very related to Dr. Chandra Gupta, himself a disciple of Radha Mohan Lalji (nephew of Lalaji) and of Thakur RAM Singh ji ( one can contact him via

Sufisms and Santmat are two currents of Islam and Hinduism which rest on the same guiding principles. Fazal Ahmed Khan Saheb (Hujur Maharaj), a great Sufi mystic, decided to break the barriers between these two currents by naming a Hindu to succeed to him, Mahatma Ramchandra Ji (Lala Ji). This new current is called Ramashram, to which one adds a suffix according to regional branches' in India and elsewhere. It takes its roots in the Sufi order of Naqshbandiyya, but according to Hujur Maharaj, the Sufism comes from the former Hindu mystics. The loop is thus buckled. More especially as Ramashram reinstated the Santmat current (or bhaktimat). Lalaji, like Hujur, his Master, reacted strongly vis-a-vis the attitude of people who were using religion to divide. They on the contrary worked for the humanitarian idea of a wisdom and a spirituality which unites humanity without any barrier. Ramashram Sansthan, located at Fatehgarh (UP - India), is the umbrella organization which groups all the ramifications in India.

Ramashram Satsang, Jaipur is a group which followed the teaching of Thakur Saheb Shri RAM Singh Ji. It is currently directed by his son Shri Narayan Singh who made the choice to use the method of the great yogi, Aurobindo.

Thakur Saheb Shri RAM Singh Ji (1898-1971) was a great disciple of Lalaji, a saint in the lineage of the Sufism and Santmat in India. “Samarpan (let-go) and Yaad (remembrance) are the driving force of his teachings”. In the lineage of the Naqshbandiyya Sufi Order, the transmission of knowledge is carried out "heart to heart". It travels from the heart of the Master into the heart of the disciple through his love and his devotion for the Master and grows with the practice, provided the disciple transcends his ego.

According to NaqshMuMRa Nexus, Thakur RAM Singh ji is not part of the 9 “preceptors” of Lalaji. Ramashram Satsang, Sansthan did not reside in Fatehgarh but in Raipur. One thus does not know which organization “Ramashram” covered under its umbrella of all the other branches of Ramashram. This is NaqshMuMRa which would be called Ramashram Sansthan by Arvind Jolly? In all cases, there are strong bonds between Radha Mohan Lalji and Thakur RAM Singh ji.

For Elodie, one is still into a succession between father and son. The accent is strongly placed on the will of the founders to overcome the religious barriers of the time, which takes us in the direction of which I spoke a few days ago, ie. of the context of inter-religious violences. But that also largely exceeds this accent, because Arvind Jolly presents them as wanting to create something which synthesizes these religions, while giving them up.

III. The Sufi lines resulting from Lalaji: Ramchandriyya (NaqshMuMRa) and Na' imiyya

1 NaqshMuMRa Nexus

The data come from the website
created by Himanshu Vikram.

According to his blog, he seems to be the son of Dinesh KUMAR Saxena and thus Lalaji's great grandson. He and his father and know Chariji well. One can contact them via or the address of Dinesh KUMAR Saxena is:

Laalaaji Nilayam -
45 Mahatma Shri RAM Chandra Marg -
Talaiya Lane, FATEHGARH, District-
FARRUKHABAD, (U.P) 209.601
INDIA - Mobile: +91 9451970632.

NaqshMuMRa is the abbreviation of Naqshbandiya Mujaddadia Mazahariya Ramchandriya, a new branch of the Naqshbandiyya Sufi Order from Mahatma Ramchandra (Laalaaji Maharaj) and created by his son Mahatma Jagmohan Narain (1901-1944).

In this branch, Hujur Maharaj (1857-1907) figures in the 34th position of the "Golden Delicious Chain", Lalaji is 36th. His brother, Raghubal Dayal called Chachchaji (1875-1947) succeeds him, then his son Jagmohan Narain (1901-44) then his grandsons Akhilesh KUMAR (1941-74) and finally Dinesh KUMAR Saxena, born in 1944. On October 23, 1930, Lalaji addressed a letter to Jagmohan's son and indicated him to succeed to him, the genetic lineage being stronger than the line by adhesion, which requires more exercise and practice.

Failing this, Brijmohan Lal, his nephew could have filled the position (line by adhesion). Lalaji pushed them to cooperate both. According to NaqshMuMRa Nexus, Lalaji had 212 disciples only and named 9 “functionaries” (preceptors?).

They quote 8 institutions which were established to spread the teaching of Lalaji, one of which is the SRCM of Shajahanpur (of which the head office is in Chennai), 5 Ramashram Satsang (Mathura, Sikandrabad, Ghaziabad, Shyam Nagar and Sansthan with Jaipur), Sant Bhawani Shankar Satsanj Aashram Orai and Akhil Bhartiya Santmat Satsang Anangpur.

Lalaji met his Master, the great Sufi saint Hazarat Fazal Ahmad Khan Sahib Raipuri, in 1891 and spent 16 years in his company. This one gave him full powers on October 11, 1896 but he began his teaching in 1911, after he had assimilated the best of various religions and had founded a new method. This one makes possible the realization of God for all without giving up family life and in a short period of time, thanks to the Master who accompanies them. His teaching also brought a social and spiritual regeneration. He could raise his disciples up to the highest states (the central area) with his will. It was a pillar of Santmat (Sufism beyond the religion).

Its teaching in 7 points:
1. Engage your coil in practice of listening to every heartbeat, super imposing there with the nomenclature of the Lord (AJAPA JAP).
2. Pure Keep your heart, away from the corrupting influence of undesirable things and undesirable company.
3. Always keep attuned to the Lord; your attention should never for has moment deviating there from.
4. Concentrate your attention one the heart and keep your heart centered in the Lord.
5. Endeavor to attain kin-ship and attachment to the Eternal truth, the Lord of Universe.
6. Gradually erase the identity of coil, try to merge in, and attain oneness with God.
7. Large sacrifice life in the endeavor.

Lalaji wrote also much:

1. Tattwa Probodhini,
2. Shri RAM Sandesh,
3. Quamal-e-insani,
4. Praveshika Santmat Satsang
5.Vedant Saagar,
6. Satsangion ke Kartavya,
7. Ramayan ki Roohani Tashrieh- Baal Kaand and Aranya kaand,
8. Raamaayan ki roohaani tashrieh- Uttar kaand,
9. Santmat Darshan

2 Na' imiyya

In his book “Changes and continuity in Indian Sufism”, Thomas Dähnhardt introduces another branch of Na' imiyya Sufi order, which seems to have assigned successorship upon Brijmohan Lal of Kanpur from Lalaji of Fatehgarh.

IV. Akhil Bhartiya Santmat Satsang (ABSS):
Head Office: B-20, D.C. Colony,
Delhi-110 007. (India) - Ashram:
Pure Anang village (Distt. Faridabad) Haryana.

ABSS with Anangpur appears also in the list drawn up by NaqshMuMRa Nexus of the institutions which succeeded Lalaji.

ABSS was created in Anangpur in 1969 by Param Pujya Param Sant Mahatma Shri Yashpal Ji, often named Pujya Bhai Sahab ji (1918 -?).

This movement finds its origins through Maulana Fazal Ahmed Sahib Kuddusuruh Naqshbandia (Maulana Sahib), of PSM Lalaji Maharaj and his brother PSM Raghuvar Dayal (Chachcha Ji: 1875-1947) and the son of the latter: Brijmohan Lalji or Dadda Ji (1898-1955) who initiated Shri Yashpal Ji.

Bhai Sahib ji synthesized their lesson in what he names “Anand Yoga” and which is diffused by his organization “Akhil Bhartiya Santmat Satsang”. It attaches its origin to the adiguru Maharshi Ashtabakra which would have initiated the celebrated king Janak (known as Videh) in Brahma Vidya during the vedic period (several centuries before the Christian era), a method which would have also passed to the Sufis while the Hindus forgot it. The method is based on Sadhana of Iti Marg where the meditation must be carried out while thinking of the name of God.

Institutions linked to ABSS :

* The Anangpur Ashram
* Saint Brijmohan Lal Secondary School, Anangpur (Faridabad)
* Saint Brijmohan Lal Charitable Dispensary, Anangpur Ashram (Faridabad)
* Saint Yashpal Charitable Hospital, Nagpur
* Saint Yashpal Institute of Computer Technology, Anangpur (Faridabad)
* Sadhna Shila, Jabalpur V.

Exerpts from "The autobiography of Ram Chandra", vol I, 1899-1932, SRCM Shahjahanpur, oct. 1980, 2nd edition

This is not taken from the new release of Babuji's Autobiography edited by Babuji's son.

Three topics:

1) Babuji's name
2) Babuji's spiritual training with Muslims
3) Babuji and ego

1) Babuji's name

page 1

"My father was Rai Bahadur Sri Badri Prasad, Honorary Special Magistrate I Class." I don't know if it helps for determining if Babuji changed his name.

page 13

Babuji meets his master Lalaji on the 3rd June 1922 for the first time. He adds:

"After coming back from my Master, I continued the practice, but not so deeply as I had to appear in the Matric and SSLC examination."

He had to pass this examination before starting to work. He got hired at the Court of Shahjahanpur on the 12th January 1925, therefore after meeting his Master. So, the precision that was given to me by the ISRC preceptor is wrong (my previous message on Elodie's blog, stating that Babuji met his master after starting his work at the Court, implying that he could not have changed his name for administrative reasons due to his work for the government).

page 14

(I) "retired as Record Keeper in 1956. My Master, who served in the Collectorate of Fatehgarh, also retired as Record Keeper."

Babuji seems to emphasize the similarity between him and his master as something important.

A cause for his choice of this job?
A cause for changing his name?

2) Babuji's spiritual training and Muslims-

page 36 - 5th April 1928

"Dreamt in the night that I visited the holy shrine of Prophet Mohammad in Mecca. There I felt vibration at a point above the Trikuti or Cavernous Plexus and also a force of the same kind which had its link with the head."

Why is Babuji dreaming of the Prophet and traveling to Mecca?

page 73 - 15th August 1929

"There, a great Muslim divine was present along with another Saint and a personage. I did not recognize that personage. The great Muslim divine asked that personage to inspect my backbone. So my shirt was removed and the inspection was made. He seemed to be pleased with me. He remarked that the condition was very good, and there was some hint regarding the emotion of love which I bore for my Guru. He directed me to request the Mahatmaji Maharaj to pay special attention and to give special instruction to my humble self. I intimated Revered Lalaji Saheb accordingly. He also asked me to keep him informed regarding my condition. What he meant at that time seemed to me as if my humble self had been ordered by him to look towards him also."

Why is Babuji dreaming of a Muslim Saint? Who is this Saint? Is it Lalaji's Master? This Saint is acting as if he was also supervising Babuji's spiritual training. It is a dream.

3) Babuji and ego

page 56

Comment added by Babuji to his journal entry of the 17th January 1929 (autobiography commented on publication?)

"The ego gives you strength for all the work. It points out to you that you have got the power to do a certain thing. But we identify ego with the body, instead of with the soul. It is the production of God which you cannot annihilate. You should modify it."

Good to read that from Babuji himslef. Chari's SRCM has produced an obnubilation against the ego to such an extent that Chari's abhyasis simply lose the important focus. Ego is not something to destroy - obviously - but something to use to reach the goal. Chari's SRCM is misconceiving this spiritual aspect of the human system, therefore misleading people. The ego is a spiritual entity, the "production of God which you cannot annihilate".


Anonymous said...


Probably this is the first article where in 4d don is really going in the research fashion. So far I have been reading only pros/cons mostly quoted from srcm and contra views presented. This is the first article away from that angle and presenting something really tangential in view point.

Keep this sort of research ongoing that you are able to post really worthy material.

amit said...

Its good you have done research about janab Quibla lalaji maharaj.Kindly try to find his vasiyatnama. Your research is missing the real link which is given in vasiyatnama

Anonymous said...

Hi Amit...

Thanks for your comments...

I added the Lalaji Material to show the "drifting" of the Sahaj Marg system in the Shri Ram Chandra Mission of Babuji and Chari.

Where Lalaji was a "wise" and spiritual man, not attached to the MATERIAL, the SRCM has now become very much like a corrupt RELIGION with its flaws of theology, philosophy and institution paradigm (the pyramid). Where Lalaji was a "fellow pilgrim" and a "friend", Chari is a MASTER with the worship and the iconography to go with it.

Lalaji did not teach that "GOD is MALE" (see

as Chari does at his schools and Lalaji does not teach the disrespect of other religions, calling them "corrupt" while claiming that his Sahaj Marg is PURE and "NATURAL", although Babuji called it the "Easy" Path as instructed by Vivekananda and Lalaji. (see Autobiography of Ram Chandra..excerpts on line)

May the ONE (what some call by the Germanic (Goth) word GOD), bless you and yours...


Unknown said...

With deepest regards to all the Saints, I think that it does not matter when was Lord Krishna or Jesus Christ or Prophet Mohammad or any other Saint was born and who succeeded Him. What matters is self assessment after following a path taught by any Saint and then evaluating over a period of time whether I am benefiting or not. And in my thinking, benefiting does not mean gaining super natural powers or material benefits, but is my existence becoming more helpful and meaningful to society at large.

4d-Don said...

Hi Rameshwar...

Thanks for the comment...

It matters if one is making "false claims".

Sahaj Marg is not the method taught by Lalaji and his legitimate following... Why is that?

If Lalaji was really the adi Guru of Sahaj Marg and the SRCM, then his method would still be the same as the method he taught his family and his "other organizations". Now to claim to be Lalaji's "successor" from a dream is really questioning the "credibility" of the person making that claim.

I can claim to have been inspired by Jesus of Nazareth (or more accurately, his teachings) or Buddha, but it is stretching credibility to claim that Jesus of Nazareth, or Buddha, in my dreams, appointed me as his SUCCESSOR ... That is a LEGAL and ethical question and is not a SPRITUAL one ...

Babuji could be an "inspired" (by Vivekanandan, Lalaji, Muhammed, etc.) person, but that does not make him the successor of Vivekananda, Lalaji, Muhammed, etc...

Now, as Sahaj Marg begins with an "invented" and questionable history, the morality or the ethics of such a lineage has had this questionable morality and ethics ever since ... Schisms, schisms, schisms... Divisions and seperations, and "illness", in the homes of the "followers". (as Babuji's long depressions as recorded in his "autobiography".

A good tree will bear good fruit and a bad tree will bear bad fruit. A good tree will not bear "bad fruit" and a bad tree can't bear "good fruit".

The fights (violent and in the courts) in SRCM (with a "fantasy" or "dream-state" beginning and with an invented manipulation of it's own history) go on "ad infinitum" and "ad absurdum".

Something born in such disrespect for other existing "groups", (Naqshbandiyya Order of NaqshMuMRa, and Ramashram) will not "elevate" or make the world more "spiritual" but will make it more "ritualistic" and more "materialistic", as more structures have to be built to be controlled by yet another group of businessmen, rather than "coming together" in the structures that are already in existence in the groups of the one that INSPIRED the foundation of SRCM and Sahaj Marg...

That is all ... Babuji is self-titled successor of Lalaji.

Now Chari is self-titled successor of Babuji.

Both are not "joiners" but "egotistical" personalities who want to be LEADERS... And they transmit that to their "followers" creating many DIVISIONS in their following...

That is not a "benefit to Society" but a cost to Society at large. And such organizations should not be "tax-exempt" as "charities", but should be taxed more so as to allow the secular society to rectify the problems caused by such "un-charitable" and ruthless businessmen and kings of INDUSTRY (industrialists) ... Much as we have to clean up the mess (pollution, poverty, etc..) of the "industrialists", we also have to clean up the "spiritual mess" of the Businessmen of RELIGION...who are really the same "GROUP" of people ... they just want to lead everything and they are not adept at anything beside making money and "manipulating" people... It can be a quality but out of control, as in Pyramidal RELIGION, it is a "detriment" to society and to NATURE...

Is Sahaj Marg not the NATURAL Path... Do the Ashrams look like NATURE to you?? (opulent gold lions, busts of MEN, marble, manicured lawns, etc..)

The "Natural" of "Materialists".


satya prakash said...

I am feeling very much disheartened by the actions and untrue self seeking thoughts of some of the followers of Param Pujya Mahatma Ram Chandra ji maharaj ( popularly known as Lalaji shab)of Fatehgarh who took samadhi on 14 August 1931 at Fatehgarh and who was real Bhagirath to bring the spritual Ganga to earth.
To know him one has to read Vasiyatnama (included in Jeevancharitra available at Lucknow Samadhi)dictated by Pujyapad Lalaji shab on 23 Octuber 1930, wherein He has clearly instructed His son Mahatma Jagmohan Narayan ji to seek this spritual knowledge through kind blessings of his eldest cousin brother Paramsant Mahatma Brijmohan Lal ji (popularly known as Pitaji shab), who took samadhi on 17 Jan. 1955 at Mumbai(His samadhi is at Lucknow), who is right inheriter of this spiritual Ganga after his father Pujyapad Mahatma Ragubar Dayal ji (popularly known as Chachaji Maharaj), who attained samadhi on 7 June, 1947 at Kanpur, who was just similar to Paramsant Mahatma Ram Chandra ji maharaj as declared by Pujyapad Lalaji Maharaj at one of the Holy festival. It may also be noted here that Paramsant Mahatma Jagmohan Narayan ji remain a faithful and obidient follower of Paramsant Pitaji shab for his entire life and finally attained samadhi in 1944 at Fatehgarh. Further, after Paramsant Mahatma Brijmohan Lal ji, Param Pujniya Paramsant Mahatma Omkarnath ji (popularly known as Bhaiyaji / Papaji shab) has devoted his entire life (since Jan 1955 at the age of 21 till 20 May 2008 when He attained samadhi at Lucknow), for the upliftment of seekers of this Brahm Gyan as per the wishes of His Bujurgan, without creating any sanstha or society which is not allowed by Pujyapad Lalaji shab in anyway.
In view of above, I pray Almighty for giving sadbuddhi to all, who are diverting from the path shown by Pujyapad Lalaji shab.
May God bless all of us to remain faithful and obidient follower of our Sadgurudev Param pujya Papaji shab.

4d-Don said...

Hi sp...

Thanks for the comments...

I have made a new article of your comments so the new readers, who may not read the original article in the archives of this blog (and hence your comments) may be apprised of the issues you bring up...

The article, dated: Aug. 11, 2009, is called:

"Comment to the Article: Lalaji and His Many Successors"


Anonymous said...

Param Pujniya Param Sant Lalaji Maharaj ji blessed Param sant Mahatma Brijmohan Lal ji, who took samadhi on 17 Jan. 1955 at Mumbai.

Who was blessed by Param sant Mahatma Brijmohan Lal ji maharaj to carry forward the mission?



Anonymous said...

Param Pujniya Param Sant Lalaji Maharaj ji blessed Param sant Mahatma Brijmohan Lal ji, who took samadhi on 17 Jan. 1955 at Mumbai.

Who was blessed by Param sant Mahatma Brijmohan Lal ji maharaj to carry forward the mission?



Unknown said...


Hi, I am great grandson of Paramsant Mahatma Lalaji Sahab. Please read the Vasiyatnama...its in Jeevan Charitra (exact replica) which was read in front of everyone who claims to be the successor...Paramsant Lalaji sahab gave his throne to Paramsant Mahatma Brijmohan Lal ji sahab (He fainted after hearing this)...Secondly Lalaji sahab was srictly against trust, mantras, yoga techniques, so those who claim that Lalaji sahab gave mantras and techniques to worship is abslutely wrong and misguiding...He only believed the way of 'Antrik Tawajjoh' which can only be given by the guru to his disciples...He stated, " Its not easy to become a Guru and secondly one needs a body to carry such powers else it will backfire."

Paramsant Mahatma Brijmohan Lal Ji took samadhi in Mumbai and after that Paramsant Mahatma Omkar nath ji WAS MADE (BY THE WISH OF BUZURGS) the successor...

Its an order for us that we are not supposed to enter in any arguments (This was clearly stated by Mahatma Ram chandr ji - "Never argue with anyone) but after reading the comments I thought its important to put forward the exact words and series so that those who are in a state of confusion may find a way...I humbly ask for forgiveness if someone gets hurt...

Ya Ilahi Ta Abad Kayam Rahe Ye Silsila...

Dr. Purushottam said...

It is happy to see the research work carried out and information are available at a place. Its a really a big family. My purpose to be to whom I get opportunity to connect as a teacher (GURU) to learn the spirituality. This will benefit me. Same time we have to our great and great regards and humble heart to our ancestor and their own/real family members. These members are always respectable to all of us. We are debt to them. Same time we are free too.

Jai said...

Strange are the comments. Real history is different. But that is not worth mentioning. People try to become important but the vidya (the real process )of Lalaji maharaj sahab exists in purest form still in India. It cannot be described. You have to give whole life and yet you can attain a fraction of it. Tall claims are giving bad name to this path.