Friday, April 17, 2009

The Guru! (According to Babuji)

Taken and translated from a comment by cri-cri on Elodie's French Blog: Pour Que vive le Sahaj Marg. (see the comment in an article called : Recettes de Cuisine Sahaj Marg by Sam

Cri-cri (Christian) was an abhyasi with Chari for 18 years. He has a Phd in, and is working as a, research psychologist and is also a "psycho linguist". See his blog (in French with some English): Analyse de la SRCM

(PS... As there is a controversy in Sahaj Marg about a "female" being a Master (The feminine equivalent of Master is Mistress) , and since Sister Kasturi acts as a "teacher, guide, Guru or Master", 4d-Don has added the "feminine" in red italics where appropriate. It is not in the original Babuji writings nor in Christian's comment.)

4d-don said:

I am officially opening: 4d-Don's Guru Counseling Services for "needy" Gurus. ;-))

When a Guru expresses openly his/her needs (desire) for his disciples to "keep your guru happy under all circumstances", then the Guru needs the disciples and the disciples do not need the Guru and they should be offered FREEDOM and LIBERATION from such a drain on their vital energies, which probably renders and leaves them emotional.
It is unhealthy and not "SPIRITUAL" or Natural!

The Guru is then either sucking the disciples' vital energies, such as their emotions (love and adulation...creating ego), mind (constant thoughts or obsession), and physical (constant requests for money, time, service, etc.)
much like a "vampire", or he is milking his serfs as if they were his own group "cash cow" his target market. He (the inferior Guru) also takes much of the focus and time away from the ULTIMATE and SPIRITUALITY, which is the raison d'etre of SRCM, Sahaj Marg and other such religious groups.

If your Master needs you to "make your guru happy under all circumstances", then he can't claim to teach Babuji's Sahaj Marg. Babuji's teachings and writings seem to infer that Chari's actions are evidence of his being an "inferior type of guru" ... Read below and see, using the brain as well as your "all", of course!


One need only read what is written by Babuji. While some people have focused people's attention on the typology of followers he had written about, and especially on the poor (bad) followers who do not do what is needed, Babuji was also committed to speaking about the bad gurus, or the risks that there are in attaching (one's self) to a guru.

Moreover, while a theological schism opposes those that had (or have) the nerve to usurp the role of "Living Master" and those who did not have the gall, but who ultimately like to play the "guru", there again, Babuji is sufficiently explicit to shine some light and to show that it is not so simple.

Some selected excerpts to put the record straight with a few comments in [brackets] so as to see things more clearly.

Excerpts from The Voice of Reality, t2 Complete Works, Ram Chandra (SRCM Publishing, 1993)

"The support of the Master," pp. 94-104

[sadhana =regulate the mind]

Appropriate regulation of the mind is essential to achieve inner peace (...). This must be the primary goal of any sadhana undertaken for this purpose. A sadhana is useless if it does not guarantee a sadhak a moderation of the trends of his mind. (...) Nearly all Sadhanas in principle have the same goal, which remains neglected.

[Robot-Guru or robot-abhyasis in the great imperial machine of the Sri Rajagopal Chari Mission = danger of getting lost]

(...) At the moment, the gurus, in their eagerness to impress people, also employ similar methods that actually take us very far from the field of spirituality. And their followers, who have lost all discernment, are unable to grasp it in its various shades and tones. They only attach to what is colored, and their mental, functioning mechanically demands nothing more than a mechanical guide, leading them by mechanical means.

Consequently, they (disciple) remain forever held back by the spells of their (guru) mechanical operations. They are not the only ones to blame in this regard. In fact, they are saturated to the point of being stunned by the slow poison which has been administered to them from the height of the soapboxes, by brilliant preachers who refer to themselves as saints and religious teachers of world renown. (...) This is the condition of the teachings and also of the teachers: the first is imbued with complacency and pride, while the second is overwhelmed by the desire of sensual pleasure, which he mistakenly took for a state of anandam.

[sadhana = abhyas + using a Living Master]

(...) The sadhana has two aspects: one, the abhyas, and the other, using the master. The abhyas are only intended to create in the abhyasi, internal conditions to attract the flow of divine grace, but it involves a personal effort. However, this personal effort is not enough by itself because it must be complemented by support from the Master. Indeed, all we need to realize our ultimate goal is God's grace and nothing else. (...) For this reason, using the Master is essential. In the early stages, divine grace flows into the abhyasi only through the Master. That's why it is often considered as the grace of the Master. That it comes through the Master's intermediary or directly, it is anyway, the same grace. Until the abhyasi is able to receive it directly, it is incumbent upon the Master to grant its benefit. Once he/she has developed the ability to attract the benefits directly, the work of the Master is virtually complete, although he/she should keep a watchful eye on him/her to protect him/her if necessary. That is the real function of a true Master.

However, the support of the teacher is an essential feature of sadhana, it is incumbent on the abhyasi to seek out a guide who is worthy of guiding him/her on the path and to help with his/her power transmitted through the process of yogic pranahuti.

[guru = servant]

(...) I do not, for the above reason, in no way advocate the Orthodox idea of a guru, because I think it is only mental slavery. Under our system, we have a common brotherhood in a spirit of mutual love, service and sacrifice that are absolutely essential in our search. We strongly condemn the idea of personal service required by the gurus on the pretext that the disciple will form pious samskaras. Nevertheless, we believe that a guide, in a spirit of service, should him/herself serve his/her disciple, not only spiritually but also physically if necessary.

[poor choice of guru=disaster]

The choice of an appropriate guide or guru is the next point to consider. The work of the guru, being the most significant and invaluable of a spiritual life, it is essential to take the necessary precautions in order to choose the man (or woman?) who will fulfill this task. The slightest mistake in this area is often quite disastrous.

[ guru= God only]

God alone is our true guide or guru and (SHE/HE/IT) only provides us light. (...)

[need for Living Master]

There is therefore a need for one of one's peers, who has enough stature to help in this direction. You can call him/her a guide, a guru, a master, or by any other name, but he/she is basically a help and a support, working in a spirit of service and sacrifice.

[superior guru= usurper]

(...) If a guru presents himself as a Master in this field, inflated by his/her sense of his/her greatness and superiority, clearly he/she has usurped the position of the true Master, God. In this case, it is quite certain he/she can not serve others as required. It is therefore essential that he/she considers him/herself as being humble and act in a spirit of love and service. He/she must devote themselves completely to the service of others, individually and collectively. This service can be physical as well as spiritual. He/she must always take care of spiritual service, but he/she must also be willing to fulfill the physical service if necessary. He/she must be devoid of any sense of grandeur, importance or pride.

[in the absence of better, take the least worse]

(...) If this person is not available at the time, the only solution is to join forces with someone who is well connected with the Great Personality because when the best is beyond our reach, we must find one who is the best after him/her.

[inept guru= null progress]

(...) The practical observation reveals that up until now, most of the sages could not reach up to these limits, except maybe some in the distant past. They lingered indefinitely in one or the other (state) without finding the exit and that, for the simple reason that most likely their guru had neither the stature nor the capacity necessary to open the path by making use of their higher powers.

[choice of guru = difficult task. Do people really choose or do they simply allow themselves to be overwhelmed?]

(...) There is no doubt that choosing a guru worthy of the name is a very difficult task.

[the difference between spiritual and idolatry]

(...) If a being is absorbed in God and another in its material manifestation, what will each one attain? One, the Reality and the other, its imitation. Should we blame God for this?

[the Master for Babuji is not Babuj, but God]

(...) I feel at one with all my associates because we are committed to the same Master, God, without the slightest idea of being elevated or lowly, big or small. Indeed, it may be that an entity, having a human form is considered big by his/her fellow humans, while in reality he/she is the smallest.

"Gita", pp. 234-235

[Blind faith also has drawbacks and does not guarantee success]

(...) Blind faith has advantages along with disadvantages. It can be of immense value when the chosen guide is really a guide of the highest level and someone who has reached the most high. But if, unfortunately, you attach yourself to someone who is not up to the mark, and who has deceived you by his/her scholarly discourses or by performing miracles, your blind faith in him will lead you in the other direction, only to illusion and deception. In this case, you do not see his/her faults since you agreed to follow him blindly. As a result, you will not be able to achieve the goal.

[first put to the test. Then look again and again]

It is therefore necessary that, before placing your faith in anyone, everyone should look twice, then again and again.

"Attachment and faith," pp. 235-237


(...) I believe that if one does not feel distressed by the plight of others, that person lacks the most basic humanity, or, in other words, he/she is not a man (woman...human?) . Therefore, I am not at all in agreement with those (...) who incite people to see father, mother, brother or son as their enemies. For my part, and no matter what the price whatsoever, I will never be inclined to follow this principle. Whatever their opinion, these people do, in my opinion, only lead others in a mechanism by their preaching, which could ultimately be fatal to their sacred cause. If we adopt this practice it will give rise to feelings of hatred and revulsion which are also harmful to our spiritual goal.


(...) Pride and arrogance are additional links to the already-existing chain of selfishness. To guard against this terrible scourge, one should remain in direct contact with God through sincere prayer as prescribed in our Mission.

"Types of gurus and disciples," pp. 285-288

[for the sheep is in the hands of the wolf]

(...) It is possible that these words seem very harsh but I am obliged to say that "for the sheep is in the hands of the wolf and the entire herd is dispersed."

[To idolize the Special Personality: reveals what kind of guru?]

(...) The gurus of the inferior type are those who tell us to revere ghosts and apparitions, and who claim to know some spells (have powers).


Thursday April 16, 02:05:00 PM


Anonymous said...

Sunday, April 12, 2009
Elodie:“.....Those who oppose this, reject anything that is somewhat spiritual. One really has to see evil everywhere, to criticize Narayana and/or Kasturi. .....”-
Elodie, already in the past I told you once: Please, control yourself! Who are you to judge others?

Friday, April 17, 2009
“.....since Sister Kasturi acts as a "teacher, guide, Guru or Master", .....” -
According to Kasturi Chaturvedi herself, at least until around 2003/2004, the only guru is and shall remain (forever) Babuji. She is therefore - in compliance with her own sayings - at the most a mistress.
What happened that she did a 180?

Anonymous said...

Hi anonymous...

Thanks for your comments..

Please give us an "id" (not your real name) to refer to you as.

I will pass on your comments to Elodie who has a blog in France called "Pour Que Vive Le Sahaj Marg".

Your other comment refers to my comments.

I don't think that Kasturi has changed her attitude towards Babuji. She seems to have changed her attitude towards Chari and her statements of 1995 and of today seem to be in "contradiction", regarding wether Babuji "dictated to her" Chari's appointement as Spiritual Representative or as President of SRCM (Shahjahanpur).

I feel that she is being treated as a Guru, or a teacher by her followers and hence Babuji's statements regarding Gurus in general seem to apply to her also... hence I added the feminine to Babuji's writings (and Cri-cri's comments) because Chari seems to think that SRCM does not allow for a female MASTER or is that "MISTRESS"? ;-)) (just a joke)


Anonymous said...

4d-don:“I don't think that Kasturi has changed her attitude towards Babuji.” -
Your logic is above my understanding: Babuji was for her the solely guru beyond exception and the (!) special personality. At least for her, nobody exept him could be a guru therefore. If she starts behaving like a guru or does except being treated as a guru she doesn’t maintain her former ground regarding Babuji’s position.

4d-don:“Babuji ‘dictated to her’ Chari's appointement....”? -
Doesn`t this sound like “Whispers....”?

4d-don:“I feel that she is being treated as a guru...”
I agree that she is being treated as a guru by her followers. . - Is there any difference from Chariji? Did she refuse being treated as a guru?

“...or is that "MISTRESS"? ;-))” - This is a very good joke! But be carefull, it could be the joke of somebody else!

Anonymous said...

Hi anonymous...

You say: "If she starts behaving like a guru or does except (accept?) being treated as a guru she doesn’t maintain her former ground regarding Babuji’s position."Oh! I guess you are right but there is no way out of that except with a concept of religion as Christ with Christianity ... She would be considered a Saint in Christianity, but as a TEACHER, even a teacher of Babuji's (or the "Christ's" (Saviour, Liberator) of Sahaj Marg) message, she becomes a "GURU" and the warnings of Babuji regarding Gurus probably apply to her too... I feel that she is probably aware of the "traps", having apparently avoided them thus far, but maybe she has not been "TEMPTED" thus far also, and hopefully she keeps "one eye open" all the time for the temptations of the "ego" that comes as if it were the "devil (Satan)" hiding behind a rock, and "pouncing" on the unsuspecting (a Christian "religious" concept that includes a "personalized evil" in the person of "archangel" (or egregore?) Lucifer (Brightness), who becomes Satan or the DEVIL for them.

But you are right... And I think she also continuously says it and appears to be a "reluctant" guru ... At least she seems to be reluctant with the TITLE when it is applied to her.

Good one though!

On your second point...

There are many differences between Kasturi and Chari, starting with the "commercialization" of Sahaj Marg and the many divisions (shisms) coming from many quarters because of the methods of Chari and his clan. One does not feel that fundamentalist "hard line" in Kasturi's words or actions.

And the many errors of theology and philosophy that are so prevalent in Chari's speeches and actions, do not come out so blatantly in Kasturi's speeches as she tends to follow Babuji's guidelines while Chari seems to be making his up as he goes along...

Then think of "the Whispers from the Brighter World" channeled messages by a French Lady "Psychic" from "the dead", the maleness of GOD, and the most blatant: Women Can't be MASTERS according to Chari. Then his "opinion" of "homosexuality", arranged marriages, etc...etc...

Chairi is not a "philosopher" and hsa not studied "theology" in any depth. He's more of a "techie", engineer, and a "businessman" with all the philosophy of the "capitalist marketplace" which is not "moral" or "ethical" and we don't expect it to be. But those qualities (or flaws) are not conducive to a "LOVING" and "forgiving" following and it attracts more of the "business" ruthless opportunists and "profiteers".

That does not come out in Kasturi or in Narayana or other senior preceptors who were originally attracted to Babuji.

Just my opinion without having met the woman (Kasturi) and the other senior preceptors ... I just read her and them on the INTERNET ...

Thanks for the comments...


Anonymous said...

Hi again anonymous...

I forgot the last point...

“...or is that "MISTRESS"? ;-))” - This is a very good joke! But be carefull, it could be the joke of somebody else!I hope I am not alone to have "thought it up" or "invented" it... but probably like all "inspirations" and acts of creation (humour, scientific discovery, artistic inspiration (muses)), that it moves merges and propagates as "fields" and those who are ready to receive become the carriers of the "information" ... There is a branch of Judaism that believes that these "perplexities" in fields in space are what are interpreted and taught to the masses as "angels" which are in personifications of "message carriers" or "messengers" from the "godhead" or the SOURCE... ;-))

SINCE YOU NOW SAW IT ... IT IS ALSO YOURS!! You are now an "ANGEL"... ;-))


Anonymous said...

4d-don, I can't let your comment go unchallenged...
“...but as a TEACHER, even a teacher of Babuji's (or the "Christ's" (Saviour, Liberator) of Sahaj Marg) message, she becomes a "GURU"..”
Sorry, this is a question of definition.. As far as I know from literature, a (spiritual) guru is said to talk out of his own (!) experience, whereas a teacher is somebody who talks (only) what he/she got to know from literature or from a person with own experience.
This means even a teacher of Babuji’s message doesn’t become automatically a guru.
I don’t know if Kasturi teaches or if she is a guru (in the way the word is commonly used).
Kasturi’s definition of “the” (not “a“!) guru is a totally different one: Babuji is the only guru (“the” only - special personality). (The same definition is with the old “Babuji (preceptors) clan”.). Go and meet these people!
In that aspect - as far as I know -Chariji’s approach (the idea of a guru) is a much more humble one.

“...she is probably aware of the "traps", having apparently avoided them thus far, but maybe she has not been "TEMPTED" thus far also...”
That might be true. But I am quite sensitive to “humble and noble behaviour”. Remember the “noble” behaviour of Kasturi in Shashwat’s “interview”, allegedly never to speak ill of others. I am for myself much more disgusted with a “noble-hypocritical” performance than I would be with harsh criticism or even rude assaults. (Behind a so-called “humility” a more or less huge ego can be hidden.)

“..At least she seems to be reluctant with the TITLE when it is applied to her” -
Same was with Chariji as you know.

“...There are many differences between Kasturi and Chari...”
This wasn’t the question.

“...One does not feel that fundamentalist "hard line" in Kasturi's words or actions...”
One does not feel!!! - Meet these people and experience what happens if you don’t believe what they are believing! Experience their “tolerance”. (Even the Catholic Church removed “the only true church” from their Credo..) -

“...Then think of "the Whispers from the Brighter World"...”
I didn’t talk of the contents, but the fact that Kasturi laughs about channeled messages and gets herself messages from a dead man.

“..But those qualities (or flaws) are not conducive to a "LOVING" and "forgiving" following ...”
Meet Kasturi’s followers. - Probably you will find dear and loving people - and others, too (like everywhere).

In a person without manners a loving heart might be hidden, whereas a sophisticated person easily hides pride ect.

“The vanities of the people slowly may die off, whereas the vanity of a saint concerning his saintliness is particularly persistent.” (Sayings of Sri Ramakrishna. Sri Ramakrishna Math, Mylapore Madras 1971, page 110)

Anonymous said...

Hi Anonymous...

There is unfortunately no "Certification" board for those claiming to be a GURU ... It is usually the followers who decide to call the teacher as Master or GURU... And that only needs "one follower".

I sure hope you don't become a "fundamentalist" Hindu or Buddhist and only call a guru one who:
In the old Indian tradition, teachers were often checked for 12 years or more before a student fully entrusted a teacher the spiritual guidance.
I like the test that Huzur gave to Lalaji, having him give a "sitting" to a panel of proponents of other disciplines ...
The result: He was a perfect copy of his Master ... In other words... there was no way yet, to gauge a spiritual "guide" on an ephemeral, eternally changing, and nebulous path in a pathless "field" called LIFE. Maybe soon !!

I am sure that Babuji, Chari, Kasturi, Narayana have not been checked for that amount of time but I think that all, including their "followers" consider them as "gurus" or "teachers" per the Webster definition of GURU...

1: a personal religious teacher and spiritual guide in Hinduism

2 a: a teacher and especially intellectual guide in matters of fundamental concern

b: one who is an acknowledged leader or chief proponent

c: a person with knowledge or expertise : expert
If you say that according to your interpretation that only one who has "experienced" God can be called a GURU then I would disagree with you... Guru also means "expert" or "Teacher" and expert can be "intellectual" as well as "practical".

At least Babuji in his writings which is what we are talking about did not "insist on being checked out for 12 years before being accepted as one's GURU or Teacher ... So since he did not eliminate "women" from being an Expert or a teacher, or Master, as Chari did, then I added the "feminine" to his writings. (with respect)

I also add the "feminine" and the "neuter" to their GOD or ULTIMATE and do not call SHE/HE/IT solely by the masculine "HIM" ... (in respect)

I have not met these "old clans" but I can see by your "between the lines" comments that they may be as hard-lined, and arrogant as the many other "religious disciples" that I have had the "chance??" of meeting.

Humility and Chari or SRCM or meditator or religious, seem like contradictions to me... ;-)) It's like saying Love and Christian ... It should be close by definition, if all Christians were "Christlike-as-he said-to-be", but ... NO cigar from ME!! Jesus, the Christ (saviour) did take out the "whip" there... no perfection anywhere, even in the "only son of God" ;-))

I agree with you about Kasturi... I am glad Shashwat did the interview and that we decided to publish it ... She was starting to get a lot of "lost sheep" from Chari's Clan so ... she became "fair game".

But I still think (feel) that she is not as 'obvious" or as blatant as Chari and his attacks on other Religions, groups (gays) such as the blatant: "All RELIGIONS PROMOTE WARS and VIOLENCE" in the SRCM "VBSE curriculum from LMOS School... That comes from Chari, the GURU, or the Master of Sahaj Marg according to their literature, and according to "SRCM's Web site and SMSF's site also...does it not?

It is one thing to be "reluctant" but is he not in "control" of his own society?

Yes... I agree...that we (I fought that battle too...since 1600 ;-)) ) "brought the Catholic church to the AGE of REASON and removed (not pleaded) their "war-like" capabilities and stances as well as their treatment of other religions and even of their own disciples, that battle was only really won in Canada in the beginning in the 1960's. I could tell you "horror stories".

But most clans of the SRCM still claim to be the "only" and "unique" (transmission) when we know that's a LIE... and the SRCM "gurus" still call the other paths and religions "corrupt" ... including ???? Chari and ???

The Whispers "spiritualism" is a farce...

I agree with you, Kasturi is much the same as many other spiritual "gurus" or "teacher"... They sneer at the competition and do the same but for them it is now "REAL" and genuine ... ;-))

Generally, this whole gang of SRCM is really like a gang of competing and dramatic "teen-agers" and not very "spiritual" at all ...

I can't disagree with your statements about Kasturi's clan as I have not met them in person, but "on-line" I am not impressed by their replies to my inquiries and comments ... their blog is now accessible by "invitation only"

They don't want to deal with the "un-enlightened" intellectuals like the rest of us. Maybe it's because I've read more (all of the books of Babuji, and many of Chari's) than them as well as many "holy" books from other disciplines, in three languages (english, french, latin,). Plus, I meditated with both of them and was a fervent "Christian (catholic) for most of my young life. And I have met many other "saints" from other religions: Kalu Rimpoche, Kirpal Singh, the KID GURU from the 60's (I forget his, and others...I read Krishnamurti, Baba Sawan Singh's: Path of the Masters, and many other spiritual books ...

Strange way to UNITE or change the WORLD these "spiritual groups"...

But I respect their FREEDOM to do what they want. I will speak my opinion of their "path" and their teachings also, as I wish ... as I have done all my life with other religions and/or spiritual disciplines that have "touched" me or my friends and family.
there is too much division and suffering in the name of GOD for me to do "NOTHING" and just turn my back and become "materialist" or "survive".

It's time to put these "religions" and SPIRITUAL GROUPS on trial and test our FREEDOM or our DEMOCRACY... Soon we will be "voting on issues" and we need to have an activist, thinking, free, citizenry to make "DIRECT DEMOCRACY" function better than "representative democracy" which has run its course...

It, like our economic system has had a good run...from the 12th century to now... Time for more REFORM!! or to FORM again...

I like you last quote of Ramakrishna...I have read a little from him and his disciple, Vivekananda ... I like!

The higher they climb, the harder they fall.

Thanks for the comments....



Anonymous said...

Let stop discussing who is who. Atleast for all of us here PRC is a black magician.