Sunday, October 22, 2006

Exchange with Yogesh Pathak on Wikipedia, 2006

Here is a exchange with Yogesh Pathak, abhyasi with SRCMtm (Chari's group) on Wikipedia.

Michael is an ex-preceptor and ex-insider of SRCM, (member of the publishing arm of SRCM). Christian was an abhyasi for 18 years and 4d-don is an ex-abhyasi. This is from the Wikipedia Sahaj Marg Discussion page:

Michael's attempt at "concensus"

Dear Friends,

Many of us who are trying to push the truthful facts here continue to be ridiculed and discredited by those in the SRCM organization on this discussion page. I will yet again (I believe for the third time) RESTATE the primary point being made by many of us, in an effort to get at least some agreement before I go ahead and modify the page with a personally edited history of Sahaj Marg and the organizations that promote it.

We have seen the comments of active members of teh SRCM that has confirmed that many who the practice of Sahaj Marg under the Shri Ram Chandra Mission believe that their unquestioning loyalty to the organization is part of the requirement of being a devoted practicant of Sahaj Marg under that organization- and attacking the credibility of anyone who does question the motivations of the organization is considered a righteous endevour.

Discussion is not getting any consensus so I will simply propose the following addition to the SRCM WikiPedia page under the heading of "History". All that I have written here is factual with the exception of comments that are specifically identified as speculation:

In 1983 when Parthasarthi Rajagopalachari (Chari) took over the position of President of the Shri Ram Chandra Mission as specified by its founder Ram Chandra (Babuji) As a result a new agenda for growth was established. Chari took the initiative to transform the Mission from a loosely structured organization established to make the system of meditation available to the public, into a sacred institution that required the unquestioning loyalty and devotion of its members. This new push to create an organization with a life of its own, caused many of the core principles of Sahaj Marg to be compromized or over ridden.

While many senior diciples had already defected due to their unwillingness to follow Chari for what ever personal reasons, this new organizational push and the percieved compromize of the principles that resulted, caused many others, who initially accepted Chari as the new president of the Mission, to leave and establish other organizations, such as the ISRC, or disassociate themselves all together from the Sahaj Marg practice. Those who left were ridiculed and discredited as people who had little faith, unwilling to accept the new President, or as people of questionable behavior or morals (see Seekers comments on this in this discussion which confirm this thinking).

By 2006 this new organizational shift had evolved to the point such that, many who remained in the organization over the years, began to question the motives of the organization as it proceeded to push for donation requirements of its western members, purchase of property throughout Europe and India, and insist on a constant growth in numbers of its members even at the expense of maintaining the purity of the original principles and in spite of the lack of spiritual growth if its existing members.

By 2006, in Europe, specifically France and Switzerland, circumstances in the various centers, caused a growing group of senior members to question the purpose of these changes and explore the possibilities of practicing Sahaj Marg outside the influence of the Shri Ram Chandra Mission. Some experimented with the ISRC, set up by KC Naryanan as an alternative organization for the promotion of Sahaj Marg, while others chose to leave all together and explore other possibilites.

Many senior members of the organization have privately speculated, based on commentary by Babuji and Chariji, that Babuji established the Shri Ram Chandra Mission to meet the needs of humanity at some point in the future. When confronted directly about the circumstances this new Mission agenda has created, Chari's common reply is that he is "only following the instructions of his Master". If this speculation is true, this would explain much of Chariji's initiatives since 1983 and his response when questioned about them.

This, I believe accurately states the history to date. I will leave this here for commentary (or to be deleted and pushed to history) before I update the page with this information.



Yogesh Pathak to 4d-don and Michael

Hi Don / Michael,

It took me a while to answer because it required that I study your blogs before putting in any replies. I did vist your blogs and I regret to inform you that I found it nothing short of xenophobia ("This Indian diaspora..., "We need to warn people..." etc.,). Is it any surprise then that your posts to the forum should as well be full of such references ("you steal our sheep", "you come to my world!", "foolish abhyasis of SRCM" etc.,). Neither is it any surprise that my not being a Christian and having quoted Christ seems to have generated an almost "How dare you!" hostility. As if one requires a license to quote Christ!

In contrast, every visitor to this page shall note the absolute patience and forbearance with which abhyasis of Sahaj Marg have responded to the posts even when faced with the most provocative language. To the discerning, this is proof enough that Sahaj Marg is an extremely effective method of meditation which enables an individual to rise above the narrow definitions of "my country", "my world", "my people" and see the underlying unity which binds all of us together.

Sure as Michael says, all words are being recorded for future generations to read and it is only for posterity to judge - long after all of us are gone. Some of us to the Brighter World and the rest possibly reincarnated to sift through the volumes of blogs and find the underlying truth, which was perhaps regrettably denied at an earlier opportunity.

This shall be my last post to the forum, not because I don't have the courage as Michael seems to pre-suppose (as if this was a street fight!!!), but because I'd rather spend my time meditating than trying to resist the resistance.


Yogesh Pathak

Don to Yogesh


I will tell you what Chari told me when I wrote to him 3 or 4 years ago.

"Thanks for this communication. Anything read out of context can have often absurd connotations too.

With Love and Master's Blessings, Affectionately",

If you don't like arogance and ignorance, don't give it. I can prove all statements I write with documentation including the "philosophy of the diaspora". It is all there for the researcher to find. When you come into a house from now on, try and communicate as a "friend" not as a "Master" or a "superior", chosen by God. There are enough of those causing strife in the world.

Go in Peace and find true love for the Inner Master....

We are all tucked inside the ONE GOD where we live!!! We do not need a "go-between"!!! Learn our spirituality, we learrned from yours and became the way you see us....Now learn ours and become the way we would like to see you!!! Compassionate and helping us feed the poor and the disenfranchised of the world. At least feed the ones in your country so we can focus on the rest of the Africa!!! Sell the Temples and feed the Poor....One human life is worth 500 temples to use Chari's style. (one lion is worth 500 sheep) sadly silly!!!

With the love of the ONE GOD in my heart! And the love message of Christ on my Lips...


Michael to Yogesh


I am a practicing Christian and was a Preceptor in your mission at one time. I practiced Sahaj Marg for over 10 years. I knew Babuji, the founder of Sahaj Marg, and got marginally close to Chari's inner circle for a time. I also spent time with with one of the last living Sufi disciples of Lalaji, Babuji's Guru. So I believe I am qualified to address your comments with at least some knowedge of the Christian, Sahaj Marg and Sufi traditions.

Christ was crucified by a spiritual hierarcy for speaking the TRUTH and challenging the hierarcy and moving the hearts and minds of the people, thus your analogy is incorrect. Chari is at the pinnicle of the spiritual hirearcy.
People like Don and myself are merely speaking the truth as we know it. We are not a spiritual hierarcy in power trying to crucify a renegade Rabbi.

We have no intention of judging Chari or taking him "down" so to speak. We don't even wish to convince abhyasis happy with the practice to leave. We are individuals who wish only that the Truth not be concealed by an organization of individuals who will twist the facts and hide the truths to attract new aspirants into their fold. We are the one's likely to be crucified here, not Chari. In fact, I was already crucified by Chari over 15 years ago for challenging, not him, but his organization, the Shri Ram Chandra Mission.

Since we're dealing with facts here, I will state some for you. Chari's exact words in writing to me 15 years ago were: " were disobedient in matters of the Mission". What is being documented here in this living history of facts and truths. The organization refered to as the Shri Ram Chandra Mission has become an entity that Chari himself insists disciples must love and obey in addition to or possibly even in lieu of the Master. This is a documented truth, not slander and brings into question the documented founding traditions of Sahaj Marg which state that "God cannot be found in the folds of any sect or religion".

This is news worthy and pertinent for future historians who study this path of spirituality. Is this new "Mission" that everyone must love, and obey a new creation by Chari? Was it the intent of Babuji or Lalaji to create an organization that everyone must obey? Do today's abhyasis believe that loving and obeying the Mission brings them closer to God? These are the questions that arise from a historical perspective. Nowhere in the current literature of the SRCM is there any reference to "love and obedience to the Mission" however the Master has stated it in letters and speeches, and disciples have even made comments in various blogs to this effect. It is important that we understand this in the context of a historical, living encyclopedia and determine if this is a new aspect of Sahaj Marg, or an oral tradition that has been kept concealed from the rank and file Abhyasis until the early beginnings or Chari's reign.

Your commentary below, while innacurate and defensive, should remain in the archives as a clear example of the mindset of today's abhyasis who, when they feel their Mission is threatened, circle around their Master looking for religious analogies to defend him. Interesting, and noteworthy. Thank you for your contribution.

However, personally, I suggest that you please stick to the facts dear brother. If you wish to vent against myself or Don, we both have public blogs for you to do this on. They are even linked to in this very page.

If you do not have the courage to do so, and choose to hide behind your powerful Mission and Master and throw stones at the truth sayers who put themselves at risk doing so, perhaps you should spend some time thinking a bit more about what your words below actually represent in a living history such as Wikipedia. This is a place for facts and truth. It is a living history. I suggest you spend more time getting to know the facts behind your faith and the faith of others before making such contradictory comments that lack any logic or knowledge of a faith you don't even practice (Christianity).

Your words are being recorded for future generations to read. Think about their implications to you, your Mission and your Master.



Christian to Yogesh

Hi Yogesh,

I don't resist to interfere.

I just want to make you notice 3 things.

1/ When you say that SRCM people are finally better because they are above the "my country", "my world", "my people" problems, you seem to forget to mention the "my sect" attitude. And on that point, they reveal to be as everyone else...

2/ Are you trying to instilate doubt and fear in people mind by stating that maybe (of course maybe, because you do know nothing at all about these matters, except what you imagine to be the truth), the bad guys will be reincarnated, reading the blogs, while the others will be enjoying themselves in the brighter world. We are the bad guys, and you are the good one. Isn't that a similar attitude than that of the xenophobics?

3/ Please, don't put "Love" at the end of your message. There is love nowhere coming out from your text, even from that word, so why to write it down.


Don To Yogesh June 12/06

Hi Yogesh,

Couldn't honour your word and stay away eh?...

Xenophobia would mean fear of strangers. You are not a stranger to me and I have no fear of you. I have seen many like you of every culture and nationality claiming superiority and mis-representing themselves as God's chosen or representatives and sucking money from the poor or average Joes to feed their lust for power. I (as you falsely quote) have no sheep or following nor do I want one as I am a "spiritual" person (That means the Spirit and one between) You, of the religious bent, claiming to lead the naive to God, seek followers as all religions do. Lalaji is turning in his grave. "Look what they've done to my song" he would sadly say. Lalaji was the elevated and beautiful part of Sahaj Marg. ie the Sufi influence.

There are some abhyasis in Europe who "foolishly" think that Sahaj Marg can be saved and brought back to what it was meant to be (as Lalaji and Babuji). In my opinion, they will not succeed. Sahaj Marg has become a religion and is now into "rituals", idolatry, iconography, materialism, and like all power structures, attracts power-hungy people and the "spiritual" pilgrims either leave or stagnate. You can quote Sufism, Raja Yoga, Christ and Mahatma Ghandi all you want, but your actions and your words and Chari's talk "denseness", not "lightness" nor "spirit". They talk how many? not what quality? They talk dogma and obedience to the Mission. It is our duty as moral and ethical seekers, to record the truth, not a fantasy or fiction or what we would like it to be. Like it or not. Beside recording the truth, if you are truly a spiritual person, not just a "navel gazer", help me get people back into contact with the "spirit" inside all of us, not make the honest seekers into dependent clones of Chari. Idolatry is not spirituality.

Most religions do their proselytizing honestly on their own merits and on the efficacy of their own system. And then there are those such as your group, since Chari, who, using the Christian churches, schools and universities as recruitment places under the pretense of "teaching meditation" actually teach obedience to and dependence on a Mill Manager who claims, through flawed rhetoric, to be the "flesh and blood embodiement of the Divine". The claims by preceptors run from "lear to focus", "take control of your life", to "keep all diseases at bay", but what is really the end product is volunteer for us. And the family? It falls apart. The dreams of the abhuyasi become the dream of the Guru.

Under the guise of being non-sectarian, your Master makes "sectarian" and anti-religion statements such as "the priest cannot forgive your sins", and "you go in the confessional and lie to a priest who is also a sinner" or "Christ was not wise" (see the Denmark speech 2005). Christians cannot serve your Master and Christ at the same time. Ask a priest. Be Honest, for the love of the ONE God.
To say so is to be less than honest, specially when you dishonestly are using the Christian Churches (in Ontario, Canada) as your recruitment place (stealing their sheep, not mine).

Like Master, like serf. If you and other abhyasis (your morality and your ethics) are the example of the efficacy of your system, re-read you "name-calling" diatribe. If you are going to quote Christ to an ex-Christian, at least try and be "loving" and "compassionate", and try not to be so opportunistic, and self-serving if you want credibility. I have Christ in my heart and Lalaji (a true Sufi who did not hide his past as Sahaj Marg does) also. You are the product of Chari's Sahaj Marg and it is not impressive. We are not amused nor impressed.

I want nothing from you. Not even your "Master Plan" or your "Master Song". Enter the place where we live in humility and you will be welcome. Enter as an arrogant megalomaniac and I will try as I am now, to get you to "be nice" and get along with your fellow "earthlings". You are no different from us, not closer to the ONE God nor more elevated. Become Yourself. We see you and we now can communicate it to our other allies. I will attempt to make this site depict an accurate portrait of Sahaj Marg and the lineage of it's founders such as Lalaji's Sufi background and Babuji's beautiful teachings. That part of Sahaj Marg is honourable.

I will forgive you...find a good mirror

I could be less tyrannophobic if you want to be less psychophobic or phonemophobic. ;-))



Anonymous said...

Hi Don,

On a Google Search of my name I found that you have shown me (Yogesh Pathak) as SRCM's Zonal Incharge for Wikipedia in the USA.

Would highly appreciate if you would remove this inaccuracy from your blog as I am neither based in the USA nor do I profess to hold any fancy positions such as Zonal Incharge of Wikipedia (if any such position ever existed).

All of my interactions on Wikipedia (totalling two messages left on the discussion page and no edits ever made to the SRCM page) have been purely as an individual.

I continue to pray to Master that you find your way.

Yogesh Pathak

4d-Don said...

Hi Yogesh...


I guess you realize that The statement is "on" not "of" Wikipedia.

If you are not a Zonal in Charge of the SRCMtm, then I apologize, I was told that by one of your "clan" that you were...

I have removed it...

I hope that when you pray, you address it to the ONE, or the ALL and not to a mere man (a plutocrat or a bureaucrat)...I have witnessed the "creations" of the Sahaj Marg method. I would not wish that divisiveness and "moral character" on anyone in the name of the ONE, what you call the Great Master!!

I have found my way, that I had lost with this divisive "sham" of spirituality...

I still believe in the ONE, the Intelligence, or God if you want to call "IT" that, with no "proxy" dividing my "I" from the "ONE" who is also the "ALL".

These words are from a "slave trader" who profiteered by "enslaving" other humans, (as SRCMtm) and who repented and became
a Christian.

I hope all who enslave (read the Sahaj Marg prayer) by getting others to repeat daily, the "we are but slaves", in that prayer and claim that through the repetition of the affirmation of this "slavery" condition, they will be "free", will also "repent" and see the Light and once again be "FOUND" and not lost in "arrogance" and egotism.

"I once was lost, but now I'm found
Was blind, but now I see"

Go in Peace...


Anonymous said...

I am an Indian and I know where Michael, Don, Christian are coming from. SRCM(TM) shrewdly hides the fact that contributing to numbers and the physical expansion of their mission is linked to their idea of spiritual progress. This is revealed only when a new recruit is sufficiently indoctrinated.
In the earlier books babuji's core statement that "God is not to be found within the folds of a sect the innermost recesses of the heart..'" used to be present however looks like this is now removed. Service to an organisation can never lead to spiritual progress.
During my association I closely observed many senior functionaries and found most of them to be rude and arrogant - with the odd exception.
The self is the only thing that is real, a guru's function is only to remove the false notion that the world is real. A Guru who leads us to believe that a spiritual state is something to be gained anew is not worth the name.