Monday, February 23, 2009
Translation and Transcript of Leena Saxena interview
This is the interview of Leena Saxena, by Shashwat, which is now on YouTube. Leena Saxena is the wife of Navneet Saxena, the current President SRCM Shahjahanpur. He is the son of the late Umesh Chandra Saxena, and the grandson of Babuji, the founder of the Shri Ram Chandra Mission and Sahaj Marg.
This (and other) incident was covered by the local Media: See "Two Newspaper Reports of Attacks on Babuji Ashrams"
and a translation is here: "Translation of Hindi Newspaper articles on SRCM (Shahjahanpur) Site".
To see the YouTube interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqSifNY1l90
English translation and transcript:
Me:- So you are saying that these people have physically assaulted your mother in law, on one hand Chari says that Babuji is his master, and on other hand his men beat up old women from the family of Babuji, can you go through some of the time line as to what exactly happened that day? If they assaulted her, how and why, what are the consequences of that act on your life.
Leenaji:- See, if Chariji and his followers accept Babuji as his guru, then you think it for yourself, my mother-in-law is the daughter-in-law of Babuji, and what she told me, that they said that they would cut her into pieces and throw her …. She was sitting in the office which is there, and they pushed her outside and said we will cut you in pieces and we will kill you!!
Me:- who said that they will cut her into pieces?
Leenaji:- they were his (Chari) followers.. one of his followers has said these words, after that they offered her water...
Me:- ok.. so they offered her water ?
Leenaji:- when she started feeling fatigue and like fainting.. then someone said, give her water… my mother-in-law said that she does not want water ... at this they said, “we have not mixed poison in this, take it"... there is no poison in this... you tell me.. from where does this poisoning stuff come into the picture? It means that they must have poisoned my father-in-law (Umesh Chandra Saxena, son of Babuji) otherwise why would anyone say take this water there is no poison in this!! This is also one of our concerns.. and then every now and then we come to know that they say all rubbish about my family ... like they will kill us here or there... like 24 hrs a day we come to know something of this kind ... always ... that is why we have requested for police protection, which we have got from the past 20-22 days...
Me:- ok.. so you are currently under police protection..
Leenaji:- yes.. they are on call... whenever we feel there is a threat.. we will give them a call and police will come to rescue us immediately... there are orders from higher ups that we should get protection from the police.
Me:- ok.. so chari and his followers have troubled you so much that you have to live under constant threat and police protection ...
Leenaji:- (laughs) what can we say to this? ... this is how our life is currently...
Me:- but they claim that they are very spiritual people...
Leenaji:- this is what people should see as to who is right and who is wrong... we have never indulged in any kind of violent activity ... you already know, they have so many ashrams etc ... but our followers have never used any kind of violence against anyone ... our followers have never used violence to throw them out of their ashrams...
Me:- I spoke to Kasturiji also today and she informed me that the Shahjahnpur ashram incident is not an isolated incident of violence from Chari's group of people... there were many ashrams which were captured forcefully by these people, which belonged to you like in Raichur, Vijaywada and some more places.. so what is the truth in this statement?
Leenaji:- meaning kasturiji is saying that we did it?
Me:- no not you.. people from Chari’s group, they forcefully captured your properties... how many such ashrams are there ... I mean Shahjahanpur was not an isolated incident.. according to Kasturiji, many more ashrams were captured by people from Chariji's group.. how many such ashrams are there..
Leenaji:- there are many such ashrams which they have forcefully taken, one in in Delhi, which I have seen from my eyes.. after my marriage I have seen many such cases, Delhi ashram was taken in front of my eyes... that is also in their hands as of today's date… they have already taken Shahjahnpur ashram 2 yrs back.
Me:- well I am kind of surprised… you are living under threat from a spiritual person!!! Police is protecting you from a person who claims to be spiritual? This could also mean that you yourself are scared… but I guess if police have provided you a security cover, that means that even government also feels that there is a genuine threat to your life from these spiritual people..
Leenaji:- see, we have a family, we have small kids, who go out.. my husband and my brother-in-law also go out to various places.. it has happened once that my brother in law met with an designed accident.. and anyone who has a family feels concerned about their safety… so I cannot say that I am not scared, we are scared and that is why we asked for protection and we have got that... My husband also goes out, if something happens to him, so whom are we going to question?
Me:- your concern can be your personal view, but if police is providing you a security cover that means that police also feels that your threat is genuine..
Leenaji:- definitely.. they feel that there is a threat that is why we have this protection...
Me:- this clears that Chariji is not running any spiritual mission, but a gang...
Leenaji:- it is up to people to decide if he is running a spiritual mission or a gang, he (Chariji) should see this himself... but there is one thing which I am not able to understand even today... they have got so many ashrams... what was the need for them to beat up my mother-in-law and capture our Shahjahanpur ashram…
Me:- it was the headquarter of SRCM..
Leenaji:- so what.. they claim that their head quarter is in Madras (Chennai)... why did they attack Shahjahanpur ?
Me:- it was your home.. it is like they snatched your home from you…
Leenaji:- (laughs..) my home no-one can take from us...
Sunday, February 22, 2009
Translation and Transcript of Sister Kasturi interview! (Feb. 20, 2009)
Taken from Shashwat's blog: The Cult of Sahaj Marg (Shree Ram Chandra Mission)
Complete transcript: updated Feb 23, 2009....
Kasturi Chaturvedi explains Sahaj Marg
Complete transcript of conversation of Shashwat Pandey with Kasturi Chaturvedi Feb. 20, 2009Interview can be downloaded here (click on "Free"... Enter code shown at top right of page and press either "open" or "save to file" (file size: 11.96MB))
Alternate link to download this conversation is here
Note by 4d-Don: Sister Kasturi Chaturvedi, the daughter of Judge M.L. Chaturvedi, of the High Court of India, was called by Babuji: The only Saint in Sahaj Marg. Her father became a disciple of Babuji at the beginning of his Mission and Sister Kasturi joined in 1948. The Shri Ram Chandra Mission was registered in India by the founder in 1945. (see blog of Sister Kasturi's followers)
Chari' s group (also called the Shri Ram Chandra Mission) is registered in San Luis Obispo, California, in 1997, and the Sahaj Marg Research and Teaching Institute (SMRTI) was registered by Chari in Austin, Texas in 1997. Chari also changed the "board of directors" of other national organizations called "Shri Ram Chandra Mission", thus controlling from India, and the USA, the "international" missions with Santosh Khanjee, hotel owner and real estate developer, now living in Austin, Texas and a few other "loyalists" of Chari. This interview with Sister Kasturi Chaturvedi, will explain a little more, what happened in India, with the SRCM.
(See Comments by Alexis from France, below)
Below is the translation of this interview in English.
Me: hello
Someone:- yes
Me: I am calling from
Someone:- hold on
Kasturi Bhenji comes on phone
Kasturiji:- hello
Me:- is this Kasturiji?
Kasturiji:- yes
Me:- Namaskar, my name is Shashwat and I am calling from
Kasturi:- hmm
Me:- I wanted to talk to you about Sahaj Marg, is this the right time to talk?
Kasturiji:- no
Me:- So.. we cannot talk today?
Kasturiji:- today in my home there is satsang, some people have come so I will go there, but why don’t you talk to someone there, there are many people in that place.
Me:- where?
Kasturiji:- there in
Me:-Actually I have reached
Kasturiji:- ok, but there are many people in
Me:- I know Navneet here..
Kasturiji:- Yes Yes, but how long can you talk on phone?
Me:- I just wanted to know 2-3 things, it will hardly take few minutes.
Kasturiji:- ok, go ahead
Me:- my first question is about linage of Sahaj Marg, Lalaji, Babuji and Chariji, but a few days back I read on internet that Lalaji was not directly related to Sahaj Marg, what is your opinion about that?
Kasturiji:- It is like this, Lalaji was not related to Sahaj marg, only Babuji Maharaj is there.
Me:- ok
Kasturiji:-like there is lord Krishna and lord Rama, there are many sages and saints who worshiped him to come down to earth, but lord is one only, similarly, Lalaji got Babuji on earth, when there is birth, there is order for that, Lalaji by his prayers, tried to get Babuji on earth, Lalaji was not the lord. Babuji is the lord, Lalaji just prayed for him to come down on earth, lord is only Babuji, it is like this.. and this is what is called Shri Ram Chandra Mission.
Me:- very good, my second question is about current master of Sahaj Marg, Chariji.. what is your opinion about him.
Kasturiji:- no no, he is not the master of Sahaj Marg, it is like this, whenever any organization is started, like Shri Ram Chandra Mission is an organization which is registered, people are left behind as a caretaker, for example, a manager, who’s work is to oversee day to day activities, like when abhyasis come, then manager should arrange for his worshiping etc, his task is only to manage, that's all, and this is what happens in all spiritual organizations, like Buddha left someone, Vivekananda left someone, it happens everywhere, similarly Chariji was assigned the task to manage the organization, not spirituality, its everywhere, like there is a manager to manage an organization, he is that only, a manager.
Me:- so do you mean to say, like Babuji was master of Sahaj Marg, Chariji is not a master of Sahaj Marg, is this what you are trying to say?
Kasturiji:- No, chariji cannot be the master, understand it like this, like Ramkrishna mission, have you ever heard that there is any other master other then Ramkrishna? Did Vivekanada become master of RK Mission? Or anyone else?
Me:- No, it never happened like that..
Kasturi:- master is only one, and that is Babuji, to run the mission, anyone can do that. Chariji is like that only.
Me:- actually since it is presented that Lalaji, Babuji and Chariji are masters of Sahaj Marg, therefore there is some element of confusion here.
Kasturiji:- lord is only one, team anyone can make, Meera always said one, Surdaas said one, Kabir said one, everyone said, there is one lord, so there cannot be many masters of Sahaj Marg, Babuji did not make only one Chariji, he made many people like Chariji.
Me:- ok, I got it.
Kasturiji:- lord is only one, but for management, there are 10 people.
Me:- ok, very fine.
Kasturiji:- good.
Me:- I had one more question, Chariji on
Kasturiji:- it is like this, Chariji joined the mission in 1964, and I joined the mission in
Me:- you mean Sulochana?
Kasturiji:- Yes, I have given transmission to him many time, Babuji asked to do that.. so this statement is false on it own, and he is also doing the same, this statement is wrong on its own.
Me:- I am delighted to know your thoughts, I have one more question, recently there is a book published by Sahaj Marg, called "Whispers From the Brighter World", which is said to contain messages from Lalaji and Babuji, and these messages are sold at a price of 250 euro’s which is approximately 12,000, Indian rupees, kindly throw some light on this as to what is this brighter world and what are these messages from the "brighter world".
Kasturiji:- I have written the truth about these things in my book, because I know, that these things are going to be very harmful for the mission in future, this will not convey the correct message, you tell me one thing, did Chariji hear the name of “brighter world” during Babuji’s time, or before him or after him?
Me:- (pause) you are correct.
Kasturiji:-(where) ever did he hear this name?
Me:- you are correct, this all started since 2005 onwards
Kasturiji:- even Chariji, he also use to do worship before, many big names use to visit him, did he ever hear this name “brighter world” (laughs..) and then there are messages from this place!! I will tell you the truth, and I have cleared this in my book, whenever someone is asked to come down to earth for some work, suppose Babuji was asked to come to earth for spirituality, there are some personalities who know before hand, that this divine personality will come down to work, such personalities leave their pleasure and allow themselves to protect that divine personality like a bodyguard, like lord Shankar, Narad Muni, and many others, whenever such personalities come down, they all are ready to serve such a personality, these are people who stay back after leaving earth, and they get the job done, they will inform, like you need to do this, you did a good job, but you need to do this also, and there is nothing of this kind in Chariji’s diary, I have read that diary.. it only contains information like, he is praising him, she is praising that fellow.. like this.. if there is expression of any kind of relation, than it is totally false, because relation are that place when spirituality ends, there are no relation for such people, all relations are part of earth, and they are left behind in this world only, when you leave this world then only divine bliss exists, and there are no relations there.. and in Chariji’s diary, all it contains is relations… I have not written his name because he is head of our mission currently, I have not taken any name, but I have answered everything, so that people can come to know the truth.
Me:- you have done a wonderful thing, I wanted to know one more thing, your personal view about religion (
Kasturiji explains religion till
Me:- there is a saying in Sahaj Marg, “religion divides spirituality unites”
Kasturiji:- this is totally wrong..Babuji said, when religion ends, spirituality begins, and when spirituality ends, reality begins, I have written everything in my book.
Me:- you have informed us of a wonderful thing, because such kind of statements make people go away from Sahaj Marg, because it gives a very wrong message about Sahaj Marg, that it is against religion, for example I am a Hindu, and in Sahaj Marg, they say Hindu religion is corrupt.
Kasturiji:- I am saying this, how can anyone follow any religion, if you are a Hindu, that means you are a Hindu, you don’t need to follow Hindu religion, you are already a Hindu. Where does the question of following religion come, either you are a Hindu or you are not… there is no question of following any religion, same is true for Muslims, they are Muslims and they do what others do..
Me:- very nice, do you know Navneetji personally?
Kasturiji:- no I don’t know him personally
Me:- you don’t know him personally?
Kasturiji:- no personally I don’t know him.
Me:- I have read in newspaper that their Ashram in Shahjahanpur was captured after beating Navneet's mother and her old brother… are you aware of that?
Kasturiji:- yes, there is a criminal case pending in that regard.
Me:- yes, chargesheet has also been filed in this regard, against Chariji, Uma Sahnker Bajpai. And others..
Kasturiji:- it is like this, you were asked to manage the mission, and a person who is suppose to manage a spiritual system, he must have a balanced state, such a person is never angry, such a person should not cause pain to anyone, when these things reduce… its sad.. is it not a matter of shame for the mission that such a case is registered against him? Is it not a matter of shame that such a case is there in a spiritual mission?
Me: yes you are right, it’s a matter of shame..
Kasturiji:- our mission is based on brotherhood, there is no-one who is big, or small, if someone is giving transmission, only during that time, he is big, else he is just an abhyasi and nothing more..
Me:- so what is your stand on this, Umeshji expired soon after, I think, they attacked the mission immediately after his death..
Kasturiji:- they simply occupied it..as if they declared a war and forcefully captured many ashrams like in Vijawada, and some more.. almost all ashrams created during Babuji’s time forcefully.. this was the reason why I said I will not continue with you !! I will stay at feet of Babuji and I will not support you.
Me:- you did the right thing, because what is apparent is quite painful, I know people in
Kasturiji:- this is what is bound to happen, many life’s have been devastated, I also know, there is something more you should know, no-one becomes spiritual suddenly, it takes time, Meera was a devotee since her childhood and reached that state after a period of time, but here what happens is there is lot of money, and when there is no accounting for donations what else will happen? What (does) money bring? Unrest, loose character, bad behaviour, these are the things which money brings and this is what causes problems..
Me:- yes you are very correct, last time when I visited India, I visited Navneet and his mother, unfortunately I could not meet you personally, therefore I thought that maybe I willl talk to you over phone and get your blessings.
Kasturiji:- whenever you come here, do visit my place.
Me:- no I will return back on 4th.
Kasturiji:- no problems I will be visiting some places in south India on 23 and I will return back on 6th, Babuji Maharaj had asked me to help people as long as I can.. so this is what I will do.. Babuji was very much against concept of donation, he had said that he will erase the name of donation from his mission, but this is exactly what he is doing..
Me:- its sad..
Kasturiji:- these were the reasons as why I said that I will not come with you (to Chari)!! Because this behaviour is totally against the teachings of Babuji, but it's ok..
Me:- do you know Uma Shankar Bajpai who is on board of Sahaj Marg Spirituality Foundation, he lives in
Kasturiji:- I know them very well, that why I never meet them.
Me:- what is your opinion about these people..
Kasturiji:- that’s why I don’t meet them
Me: ok
Kasturiji:- instead of saying anything, when you find that spirituality is far far away, its better not to visit that place, and then say anything about it.
Me:- ok.. does it means that they are not very good people?
Kasturiji:- this is the reason as why I don’t visit them.
Me:- by any chance do you know S.K Shukla ?
Kasturiji:- they may have joined later, I don’t know them.
Me:- ok.. I know family of Uma Shanker Bajpai, but unfortunately now my relation is very bad with them..
Kasturiji:- if you happen to visit here, do meet me.. you will get all the answers
Me:- sure I will try my best.. I just wanted to know two more things.. your opinion about these two things.. after which I will say thanks to you..
Me:- first is... Navneetji has filed a case regarding ownership of Sahaj Marg and SRCM, in which he has produced a letter of nomination in supreme court of India, case is still pending, what is your opinion in this regards
Kasturiji:- how many people have this letter of nomination? There are many people with this kind of letter of nomination.
Me:- I could not understand
Kasturiji:- its better not to get involved in these things..
Me:- it is for my information only… nothing else..
Kasturiji:- I am telling this for your information only!! Nobody has anything..
Me:- ok.. so according to you, chariji was asked to manage the group!!
Kasturiji:- yes, for management only.
Me:- like a secretary or something like that..
Kasturiji:- exactly, only for management, (not related to spirituality)
Me:- so what is the contribution of Umesh Chandra in this?
Kasturiji:- there is no contribution from anyone, he was Babuji’s son, all that he could do as a son that was all his contribution.
Me:- interesting..
Kasturiji:- he wanted to become that… that all, these things are useless.. (laughs..) and I am not interested in this either, I never try to know these things..
Me:- Actually I have seen the documents submitted in supreme court of India, I have seen both the nomination letters, one of 1983, which is in favour of Umesh Chandra and that of Chariji which was that of 1974.. and I got the signature verified by an expert on both the documents…
Kasturiji:- I have not seen anything, I have never seen any nomination letter for anyone!! Babuji taught me meditation and service to abhyaisis and that's all I know, I don’t know anything else..
Me:- Actually I came across someone who said that Babuji appointed Chariji as his spiritual representative in your presence, like you are a witness for Chariji’s appointment.
Kasturiji:- this is totally wrong!!
Me:- so this is not true!!
Kasturiji:- laughs.. these people can say anything..
Me:- yes, even I was also surprised by this, because when I read about you on internet, my first impression was that, that you are a very honest woman, and I had this desire in me, that if I am able to meet you or if I am able to talk to you, I will consider myself as very lucky, but when I came to know this.. I was a bit surprised, I happen to know someone in Canada, and I was informed that appointment of Chariji took place in your presence.. I was taken aback with this information because I could not digest the fact that if Babuji was a divine personality, then he cannot make a person like Chariji his spiritual representative.
Kasturiji:- when you can understand this, Babuji was Babuji.. got it?
Me:- yes I got it.. I am really pleased to know this.. now my last question; my last question to you is, what is your comment for Sahaj Marg, given the current situation of Sahaj Marg, like Chariji arranges marriages inside his group, there are divorces in Sahaj Marg, very young children are separated from their parents, in Lalaji memorial school in Chennai..
Kasturiji:- you answer this question yourself.. is this what is known as spirituality?
Me:- No, but what is your opinion about these things..
Kasturiji:- my view is simple.. these were the very reasons as why I left that group..
Me:- ok..
Kasturiji:- Babuji Maharaj has told us that the Mission is one family, which has only one point of view, everyone should stay in support for each other.. and one more thing Babuji Maharaj said, that he has infused a life of brotherhood in his Mission, and if this life has a feeling of brotherhood, that means you have joined the Mission properly, but if any other feeling is there in you.. then you have not joined the Mission properly.
Me:- did Babuji during his life time, ever arranged anyone's marriage?
Kasturiji:- Never.. he was very much against these kinds of things.. he was very clear, there will not be any hospitals in ashram, no post office will be there in any ashram, all the ashrams will be very small, so that not much land is used in building these ashrams and farmers land should not be used for building ashrams.. minimum money should be spend, because this money if from abhyasis.. it is abhyasi who pays for these things therefore spend minimum money possible.
Me:- So, it means Babuji never arranged any marriage during his lifetime.
Kasturiji:- Never, Never..
Me:- fair enough.. actually there is a statement from Chariji wherein he says that there is an order from Lalaji that abhyasis of Sahaj Marg must marry each other..
Kasturiji:- (laughs..) was he present at that time?
Me:- (laugh..) I could not understand this.. even today!! How come Lalaji gave this order?
Kasturiji:- you tell me.. he says this is an order.. was he present at that time???
Me:- how can he be present at that time, he was probably not even born at that time..(laughs)
Kasturiji:- (laughs).. don’t get involved in these things son, take only that which is good!! Sahaj Marg system teaches us to become like saints.. rise above humans and become like saints.. consider everyone your own, and love everyone, and move towards peace and happiness.. good enough?
Me:- yes
Kasturiji:- remember this only !! and whenever you get an opportunity do visit me..
Me:- definitely, I will try my best to meet you !! the last thing which I wanted to inform you, just in case you are not aware.. in a report published by a committee of French government, and also in Belgium, it is stated that practice of Sahaj Marg is psychologically harmful and members of Sahaj Marg are brainwashed, controlled and manipulated.. what is your opinion about this..
Kasturiji:- I have also heard that mission has been removed from every country only in Denmark it is there and from all other countries it has been removed. What you feel bad about Sahaj Marg, governments and other agencies have also objected to same things..
Me:- hmm.. I have heard that Chariji has cancelled all functions of Shri Ram Chandra Mission this year.. are you aware of this..
Kasturji:- now he has said that only one function will be celebrated this year, which is his birthday celebration of 24th july.. that's all..
Me:- ok, I am greatful to you for your information..
Kasturiji:- I will stop here now, I have to go..
Me:- thanks a lot for your time.
Kasrutji:- thank you.
Note by 4d-Don: That is the complete translation of this conversation between Shashwat and Sister Kasturi Chaturvedi, Feb. 20, 2009.
Alexis Said: (Alexis has a blog called Le Projet Sahaj Marg, See his comments in French there)
* There is no link between the Sahaj Marg and SRCM of Babuji on one side and the teachings of Lalaji and his successors on the other. This confirms the previous comments of her (Kasturi) collaborator, Pandit Ji, who claimed on his blog on 18 February 2009 that Lalaji was: Sant Mat: "(...) Sri Ram Chandra's mission is babuji's mission and started by babuji not by lalaji, lalaji had sant mat which is still there in fatehgarh (...)." -
Comments posted on 18 February 2009. They also seem to forget the origin of Sufi NaqshMumRa, the current Ramashram Satsang and the followers of Lalaji brother ...
Comments posted on 18 February 2009. They also seem to forget the origin of Sufi NaqshMumRa, the current Ramashram Satsang and the followers of Lalaji brother ...
* As highlighted by Elodie, she (Kasturi) now claims that "Chariji is not the Master of the Mission, but its manager. There is only one Master and that is Babuji". Except she was saying something different in 1995:
"(...) Simply because Sri Babu Ji Maharaj prepared him to be his spiritual representative and the President of Sri Ram Chandra Mission of Shahjahanpur. In truth, Sri Babu Maharaj Ji m has not only dictated to me the statement of appointment of Sri Chari Ji as President, but he also divulged the divine beauty with which He has prepared him (...) "-
Speech of 1995, French version (translation by Denise Mincet).
This is one more contradiction in a story that does not lack for "contradictions".
A little quick and hot analysis...
Under very restrained exteriors, Kasturi complains about everything that Chari is doing today: weddings, big ashrams, calling for donations, publications of "Whispers", etc..
Very guarded, since she refuses to speak ill of the supporters, and of Chari himself, or she "laughs it off" rather than responds. She therefore refers constantly to what Babuji said, to show how the SRCM of Chari does not follow his example. But it is up to us to draw conclusions because she knows better than to do it ...
A priori, this seems to justify that she deals only with spirituality and makes no judgment of others. A style of speech that should appeal to the disappointed "charisma" of Chari, as Elodie appears to succumb!
Yet his version of events is changing over time, it is true that 14 years have passed since her speech of 1995, 26 years since the death of Babuji and even 35 years from the alleged letter of appointment of Chari ...
But it is Chari's evolution that impels her to amend her version of the story!
She only deals with spirituality, as her collaborators who have created a blog in her name, and who refuse to answer questions of polemics. But they do not spit on the "disappointed charis-ma" that come to them today, quite the contrary. The blog has obviously been created to attract the disappointed, and so much the better if they are numerous. Hence the criticism ofl Kasturi who is increasingly more bitter, but polite. Hence their pleasure that we, the bloggers have advertised their blog.
Attention, their speech is surfing on a wave whose slopes are soapy. They must not forget that it is largely the numbers that caused the drifting of the SRCM of Chari. This could also happen to them if they have too much success ...
Interview with Sister Kasturi, Sahaj Marg's only Saint!
Taken from Shashwat's Orkut site: Freedom from SRCM-Sahaj Marg
Article: Shahjahanpur Ashram Story
Kasturi bhenji explains the fundamentals of Sahaj Marg and about Chari.
http://www.bigupload.com/files/BSBS874I44/0221091614_00.mp3.zip.html
Conversation is in Hindi, transcript of translation (to English) coming soon!!
COMING SOON to this Blog: Translation to English, and Transcript of Kasturi Interview.
Article: Shahjahanpur Ashram Story
Kasturi bhenji explains the fundamentals of Sahaj Marg and about Chari.
http://www.bigupload.com/files/BSBS874I
Conversation is in Hindi, transcript of translation (to English) coming soon!!
COMING SOON to this Blog: Translation to English, and Transcript of Kasturi Interview.
Saturday, February 21, 2009
SRCM's Shahjahanpur Ashram Story by President's Wife
Taken from Shashwat's Community on Orkut: Freedom From SRCM - Sahaj Marg
(The interview is not in English- comments on content for the sake of blog readers are appreciated)
COMING NEXT: Interview with Sister Kasturi!! We will publish transcript in English here!)
(The interview is not in English- comments on content for the sake of blog readers are appreciated)
COMING NEXT: Interview with Sister Kasturi!! We will publish transcript in English here!)
Babuji's SRCM-Shahjahanpur Ashram Horror Story
Babuji's family members have spoken openly about the incident of Shahjahanpur Ashram, below is the link for the video testimony of Leena Saxena, wife of Navneet, grandson of Babuji and the current President of SRCM-Shahjahanpur.
She is informing us that they are living under police protection as Chari and his gang members have threatened them, and the government feels that there is genuine concern for their lives from Chari's gang.
She informs us about how Babuji's family is living under constant threat from Chari and his gang members:-
Channel link:-
http://www.youtube.com/user/exposingsahajmarg
Video link
http://www.youtube.com/v/TqSifNY1l90
She is informing us that they are living under police protection as Chari and his gang members have threatened them, and the government feels that there is genuine concern for their lives from Chari's gang.
She informs us about how Babuji's family is living under constant threat from Chari and his gang members:-
Channel link:-
http://www.youtube.com/user/exposingsah
Video link
http://www.youtube.com/v/TqSifNY1l90
Friday, February 20, 2009
The (Hunting) Preserve of the SRCM (Sahaj Marg) President
Taken from Elodie's blog in France: Pour Que Vive le Sahaj Marg in an article by Alexis Titled: La Chasse Gardee du President, Thursday, February 19, 2009
The Hunting Preserve of the President in the Near and Middle East
The Hunting Preserve of the President
In 1977, an Arab student discovers Sahaj Marg in Sweden. He returned to Bahrain in 1980, met Babuji in 82 and became a preceptor in 86. In 1991, a preceptor from Ethiopia, a United Nations official, formed 4 of his Iranian colleagues from the UNHCR (High Commissioner for Refugees). In 1992, an Indian abhyasi reaches Dubai. Sahaj Marg then spreads in 96 to Oman, Kuwait and Qatar. Pakistan was won in 2001.
On August 1996, Chari went to Tehran and then to Israel in May 97 for an international conference of the International Association of Spiritual Psychiatry. He was then in Dubai in March 2002 and again in October and November of 2003 when he appoints a quantity of preceptors for Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Iran, Oman, Qatar and the UAE. On May 31, 2004, the Sahaj Marg Spirituality Foundation, a nonprofit organization is registered at the Department of Economic Development of Dubai. And Chari continues his travels: January 2005 in Abu Dhabi and Dubai, in November 2005 in Oman, in May 2006 in Kuwait and Bahrain. Again in April 30, 2007 for the 108th anniversary of Babuji in Dubai, he is at the Iranian Club Auditorium with 700 people. And always in Dubai in April and again in June and October, 2008 ... for tours of the Middle East. Sahaj Marg follows the oil patch to the countries of North Africa: Egypt, Sudan, Morocco and Libya. The VBSE started with 15 children in 1997, it is now composed of 3 groups with one hundred children from 5 to 17 years, and teachers who are organized for appropriate guidance (need of guidance).
In 2007, the SRCM now confirms having 41 preceptors, and approximately 600 abhyasis in Dubai and the emirates attached. Surprising when there is no list of preceptors available for this country unlike any other.
It is The Hunting Preserve of Chari who went there every year since 2002, and up to three times a year. No SRCM registered there, but the foundation called Sahaj Marg Spirituality Foundation (SMSF) instead! It is a nonprofit organization, but it was declared at the Department of Economic Development, which shows a bit of lacking in spirituality ...
Millions of dollars come from anywhere to Dubai without any verification of their origins, through the presence of more than 5,000 foreign companies located in the famous Jebel Ali Free Zone or other specialized (trade) zones. They enjoy significant tax advantages ( corporate tax "holiday" for 15 years renewable, no taxes on personal income for individuals and the tariffs (tax rates) are very low or zero).
And tax havens are obviously a good revenue for Chari. Let us not forget that it is from Dubai that he sent his austerity message on 24 October 2008 for the SRCM ...
The SRCM is for a minority of diplomats and financiers who share luxury and wealth, including the Iranian Club in Dubai, while a large majority of the population consists of immigrant workers from the developing countries of the Indian subcontinent and Southeast Asia, underpaid and working in harsh conditions on construction sites. Recruited on fixed-term contracts in most cases, their condition is reduced to the value of their work. These are mostly single men who were brought in, are very dependent on their employers or their sponsors, who have advanced them travel and subsistence money, and who retain their passports. These, rest assured, do not even have time to think about meditation...
Indeed, many foreigners are subject to the system of kafala (or sponsorship). They are placed under the responsibility and the protection of a kafil, a citizen of Dubaï, who takes in exchange a levy on their income. Essentially a privilege of citizenship, the kafala reserves 51% of the ownership of any company with an emirate partner. Ownership of a property or a business with overseas owners has similar concessions. Aliens who are subject to kafala may, at any moment, be deported. Their interest is therefore to be confined strictly to their work.
As you can see, Chari has chosen his camp, that of high finance and international diplomacy. Not that of manual workers from his country ...
Alexis
The Hunting Preserve of the President in the Near and Middle East
The Hunting Preserve of the President
In 1977, an Arab student discovers Sahaj Marg in Sweden. He returned to Bahrain in 1980, met Babuji in 82 and became a preceptor in 86. In 1991, a preceptor from Ethiopia, a United Nations official, formed 4 of his Iranian colleagues from the UNHCR (High Commissioner for Refugees). In 1992, an Indian abhyasi reaches Dubai. Sahaj Marg then spreads in 96 to Oman, Kuwait and Qatar. Pakistan was won in 2001.
On August 1996, Chari went to Tehran and then to Israel in May 97 for an international conference of the International Association of Spiritual Psychiatry. He was then in Dubai in March 2002 and again in October and November of 2003 when he appoints a quantity of preceptors for Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Iran, Oman, Qatar and the UAE. On May 31, 2004, the Sahaj Marg Spirituality Foundation, a nonprofit organization is registered at the Department of Economic Development of Dubai. And Chari continues his travels: January 2005 in Abu Dhabi and Dubai, in November 2005 in Oman, in May 2006 in Kuwait and Bahrain. Again in April 30, 2007 for the 108th anniversary of Babuji in Dubai, he is at the Iranian Club Auditorium with 700 people. And always in Dubai in April and again in June and October, 2008 ... for tours of the Middle East. Sahaj Marg follows the oil patch to the countries of North Africa: Egypt, Sudan, Morocco and Libya. The VBSE started with 15 children in 1997, it is now composed of 3 groups with one hundred children from 5 to 17 years, and teachers who are organized for appropriate guidance (need of guidance).
In 2007, the SRCM now confirms having 41 preceptors, and approximately 600 abhyasis in Dubai and the emirates attached. Surprising when there is no list of preceptors available for this country unlike any other.
It is The Hunting Preserve of Chari who went there every year since 2002, and up to three times a year. No SRCM registered there, but the foundation called Sahaj Marg Spirituality Foundation (SMSF) instead! It is a nonprofit organization, but it was declared at the Department of Economic Development, which shows a bit of lacking in spirituality ...
Millions of dollars come from anywhere to Dubai without any verification of their origins, through the presence of more than 5,000 foreign companies located in the famous Jebel Ali Free Zone or other specialized (trade) zones. They enjoy significant tax advantages ( corporate tax "holiday" for 15 years renewable, no taxes on personal income for individuals and the tariffs (tax rates) are very low or zero).
And tax havens are obviously a good revenue for Chari. Let us not forget that it is from Dubai that he sent his austerity message on 24 October 2008 for the SRCM ...
The SRCM is for a minority of diplomats and financiers who share luxury and wealth, including the Iranian Club in Dubai, while a large majority of the population consists of immigrant workers from the developing countries of the Indian subcontinent and Southeast Asia, underpaid and working in harsh conditions on construction sites. Recruited on fixed-term contracts in most cases, their condition is reduced to the value of their work. These are mostly single men who were brought in, are very dependent on their employers or their sponsors, who have advanced them travel and subsistence money, and who retain their passports. These, rest assured, do not even have time to think about meditation...
Indeed, many foreigners are subject to the system of kafala (or sponsorship). They are placed under the responsibility and the protection of a kafil, a citizen of Dubaï, who takes in exchange a levy on their income. Essentially a privilege of citizenship, the kafala reserves 51% of the ownership of any company with an emirate partner. Ownership of a property or a business with overseas owners has similar concessions. Aliens who are subject to kafala may, at any moment, be deported. Their interest is therefore to be confined strictly to their work.
As you can see, Chari has chosen his camp, that of high finance and international diplomacy. Not that of manual workers from his country ...
Alexis
Thursday, February 19, 2009
Sister Kasturi's PR Man's Views on Lalaji and Women Masters in Sahaj Marg and SRCM!
Taken from Kasturi Bhenji Blog in the comments Feb. 17-18, 2009.
Comments by 4d-don: in "red italics"
Anonymous said...
pandit ji said...
Comments by 4d-don: in "red italics"
Anonymous said...
"As I have said earlier also in the blog that it is not always necessary to have a Preceptor to continue with your Sprituality"
This is strange... it seems concept of spirituality as defined in sahaj marg is not dependent on master but changes with people defining sahaj marg.
If a perceptor is not needed, why preceptors are appointed?
I have heard that babuji said (in one of the messages from brighter world) that women cannot become master of sahaj marg, how is it that sister kasturi taking the role to master?
pandit ji said...
Dear brother,
preceptors are meant to help the master for which they are prepared now if the preceptor is not prepared as per what babuji needs or one does not get the proper feeling then in that case do we say sprituality is dependent on preceptor.. so in this context it was written, try to get behind the main idea before commenting.
where have you heard babuji saying that women cannot become masters please give the page number also as far as my knowledge goes babuji never said this. (Chari said this at a speech at Satkhol airport in 2001... see below for Chari's view on the role of women in SRCM-California-1997)
on more thing need to be clarified once more that babuji is the master and he is always present with us so there cannot be any other masters , yes president, seceratary can be there for administration but master is one in sahaj marg the simple way to ultimate , sri ram chandra's mission is babuji mission to take every body to ultimate so he is the master although he never said that he is the master, moreover we should not see and remember babuji as a physical body but as divine internally connected to us.
also few more thing i would like to tell
Sri Ram chandra's mission is babuji's mission and started by babuji not by lalaji, lalaji had sant mat which is still there in fatehgarh ... (Finally, someone who agrees with the dissident bloggers... Sant Mat is Meditation on the Inner Light and Sound. Sahaj Marg is a combination of the Sufi "Transmission" of prahahuti from the Master, and "obedience")
PS... Research tips: Lalaji's RamAshram, Lalaji's NaqshMuMRa Nexus, Sufism Naqshbanhiyya Golden Chains, Ruhani Satsangh, Sant Mat,
people who dont understand concept of meditation and divine connectivity term the experience as mental diseases Hallucination, madness and psychological illness
but to the contrary we get eternal peace and divine blessing form meditation
i have put my view points if somebody has doubts please ask sister kasturi directly
also please put queries pertaining to spritual progress not all these discussions i think we have many other places to discuss all of those but please avoid discussing them here , i know some people will say i am supressing things etc.. they may feel whatever they feel like but this blog is for spritual discussion and not administration related hope you understand .
Lets be in divine babuji's remebrence always
Wednesday, February 18, 2009
The Führer said: "OBEY!"
Taken from Christian's blog in Europe: Analyse de la SRCMtm in Item Xl (towards the bottom of the page), and translated by 4d-don using "Google translate".
Christian is a Phd in psychology and is a psycho-linguist. He was an abhyasis for 18 years and left the SRCM a few years ago and took a short journey in the ISRC of Narayana, Dr. Varadachari's son's Group.
Chari's words are in "purple italics"
Author and owner of this blog's (4d-don) comments are in "red italics"
Obersturmbannführer said: "Obey!"
In their toxic propaganda, the members of the Sri Rajagopal Chari Mission (tm) have placed on-line, free for viewing and downloading, a few books that expose the heart of Chari's doctrine.
This may seem generous on their part, but remember that not so long ago, SRCMtm did not have any works on-line for free. Any "product" was the subject of commerce, and we talked on the blogs of the contrast with the more healthy approach of the ISRC, which has always placed its material free on-line for the benefit of the students, whether they be members or outside the organization. Such a contrast was indeed indicative of the materialistic and anti-spiritual mood that reigned and still reigns at the SRCMtm.
First point, therefore, the free availability on the net is a response to our criticism so as to save face vis-a-vis the position of their competition - it is at best, nothing more than a marketing strategy. This is certainly not the spontaneous expression of generosity of spirit, contrary to what some in the SRCMtm claim.
A second point concerning the content must be raised: Chari's doctrine is an aberrant development of the teachings of Babuji, which should no longer be called Sahaj Marg, as it is based on principles completely contrary to the initial teachings. Note for example the trend towards control, domination and power, where Babuji established respect, service and love, "naturally".
From a psychological point of view, the elements contained in these texts are pure poisons, which are from a mental pathology, rather than holiness. Negative notions are mixed with positive notions to be acceptable, but they remain contaminants.
We chose to analyze the chapter "Obedience" (Series 4) to give you an overview of the doctrinal drift established by Chari, with some excerpts below. The entire text can be found at: http://www.sahajmarg.org/smrti/education/publications/salfeatures/series4/obedience/obedience.html
These extracts show how, whereas Babuji gently guided and respected - because it is not possible to do otherwise - due to the weaknesses and flaws of human nature, Chari passes to force that is apt to destroy spirituality.
Chari teaches submission to the supreme, ie the master, Chari himself, through which could the services of the divine could be assure to the creatures as to the creator. At the same time, he refuses to submit to certain aspects of creation, which need to be addressed with a attitude of subtlety, revealing his involvement in a political project, rather than in a divine plan.
The logical consequence which he faces is an impasse, in which he has no other option but to end his reign as best he can, by imposing an artificial and totalitarian control over some aspects of nature that he does not control. In the texts discussed here, for example he choses to force abhyasis by manipulative processes, to absolute obedience.
He can talk of love in his message to make it acceptable - a dance of love - the direction he gives to his followers remains contrary to that of expansion and enlightenment of the disciple, which have always been the path in the teachings of the saints.
He justifies this approach by doctrinal arguments presented in the books of propaganda of the Sahaj Marg Research and Teaching Institute (SMRTI), a case full of contradictions. We are not surprised that he asks that the abhyasis not think, in the case that with a time of reflection, they would realize the deception.
So the best disciple is the one who is most obedient. The highest disciple is the one who is absolutely obedient - not highest in spiritual evolution, which after all is always the gift of the Master. In Sahaj Marg, without obedience can be gained nothing, absolutely nothing. You may be the greatest tapasvi (one who does penance), twenty-four hours meditation, putting yourself like a piece of cloth at His door. I dare say you will not achieve anything.
Although there is no connection between obedience and spiritual development - which is what Chari said here - the disciple should be obedient to be a good disciple. Let us put things in perspective: Why does anyone come to see a spiritual master, what do they seek ? God or obedience? Does one atttain the divine by obeying a madman? What did Babuji say about such gurus? (one is better off without a guru at all, than with a bad Guru)
Obedience must be total
Do not think, just obey
If you think at all, you will necessarily get out of the clutches of the swindler, and he needs obedient slaves to run his business.
If anything will guarantee total success in spiritual life, it is obedience, because obedience means that we do not think of what he asks us to do, we do it.
Obedience means doing when He says "do", stopping when he says "Stop."
If you think about what the Master says, you are already on the road to destruction. You are not to think, because if you think, you are setting your thinking process against His. Babuji never thought for himself, his thinking was suspended when he had been to his master. He has written about it clearly. He said, "when I went to my Master for the first time, I never looked at anybody else." Not for me to think. Then what? Not for me to think, but only to obey.
Whereas in the first passage, Chari argued that obedience has nothing to do with spirituality, he says the opposite here. Chari also suggests that we should not think at all. According to him, to have one's own thought, is necessarily to have a thought that is against that of the master. But the thought of the master and the disciple may well be consistent and mutually reinforcing, particularly when the Master has correctly understood and correctly taught the teaching to the disciple and when this instruction is in line with reality.
Of course this is not the case if the teacher is a scam artist, in which case he must expect that the thought of his followers are opposed to his. Chari argues that there is danger of destruction if we think. He does not specify what he means, but knowing the context, one can imagine that by destruction, he is thinking of the destruction of the self. For example, the spiritual life of the disciple could be destroyed if he were to think. Perhaps thinking would lead to doubt, and doubt would lead one to seek for something else, hence to a movement to restore the disciple on the path to the Divine, and to extricate his/herself from the "spider-web" of Chari, which would be bad for the business of the latter.
Chari gives the example of Babuji, the supreme authority from which he derives his own without being embarrassed, to justify what he has to say and to have it be accepted. However, he lies. I asked abhyasis who knew Babuji in the 1970's, if things were happening as Chari relates them here. They denied it and explained how Babuji discussed everything with his associates. Babuji often asked for the opinions of the abhyasis, and if he proposed something, it sometimes happened that his associates argued against it, if they were in disagreement. Babuji then sat in meditation for the opinion of his master, and it sometimes happened that he came back with the confirmation of Lalaji ... that the abhyasi that was correct and that Babuji was wrong.
Babuji was never presented as a tyrant and giving orders, claiming absolute knowledge which everyone should abide completely, as Chari today. Babuji asked instead that his associates think and do their own research, to develop their discriminative intelligence and he enriched his own reflection with these interactions. His supreme reference was Lalaji, and not himself.
There is only one freedom and that is freedom to obey the Master.
It is a FREE affirmation, right?
When we are with the Master, we should not have desires - not even for a sitting, not even for Upadesam (advice), not even for questions and answers, nothing! We should be like the dog, which is just happy enough to lie down at the feet of the Master and look at his face!
Robotic-Abhyasis, Obedient dogs . 1984, Georges Orwell.
Abhyasis who claim to be devoted must realize that obedience is the first sign of devotion and where obedience is lacking, devotion can not be there.
Here Chari begins to manipulate his readers by using the leverage of devotion, a concept that gets good press to get people to obey. He said in essence: you claim to be devout, but if you are not blindly obeying you're not devout, hoping that this will get the devotees to submit.
It becomes the duty of preceptors to explain to abhyasis that, without obedience of the Master's instructions, spirituality becomes something which can not be practiced by such persons.
Here we are in a litigious and mechanical approach, not living in the approach of spirituality where the abhyasi would naturally be lead to implement the instructions of the teacher - not to obey - if he recognized that these are sensible are beneficial and help him achieve what he seeks or for which it has consulted the teacher or preceptor. Is it a natural path or a path that forces people?
Obedience, in the beginning, is a very difficult thing because it means subservience of our ego, our subjugation of ego, to a superior person. Therefore the ego rebels. Disobedience always comes by a rebellion of the ego. But people forget that when you are obedient you have no more responsibility for anything that you do, or do not do, under his order. (...) It is the liberation from the world. (...) This is liberation while I am alive - I assume. And I'm convinced in myself that this is Jivan mukti.
One might have doubted that when Chari speaks of the Master, he refers to a human being. Some dishonest people of the SRCMtm misuse that confusion between God and the Master, caused by the use of the same word for both, the word "Master." In this misuse towards which their endoctrination pushes them, they justify the delusional rantings of their idol. It is clear here that with the word "Master", Chari refers to a human being as he speaks of a "superior person". Babuji conceived of the living Master as a servant, not a "superior person". All Sufis consider God as the sole Master, and all the living teachers as His servants.
Is it possible that he has fallen so low that now Master Chari has become a "superior person"? Chari also speaks of submission of the ego. This conception reveals that he conceives of his relationship to the abhyasis as a power relationship, a relationship of domination, a power relationship between two human beings, not as a fraternal relationship based on spiritual values in which the ego does not matter. Chari then claims that if you're obedient you will not have any responsibility and will be released. If we consider the case of Babuji, who was totally obedient to his master Lalaji, we see that obedience was not free of heavy responsibilities, on the contrary.
Finally, if being obedient gave spiritual liberation, why did Chari say in the first exerpt presented above, that obedience makes one a good disciple but does not bring anything spiritually? When one lies, one always ends up contradicting oneself.
Loving Him, obeying Him, following Him, our responsibility does not exist anymore to anybody.
True, his goal is to make irresponsible fools of abhyasis. This is not spirituality, it is the opposite.
I always judge an abhyasi's love for the Master by the degree of obedience that is visible to us.
A sad confession: he needs to measure what is visible, thus materialized or utilitarian, the love of an abhyasi for himself. Do you not think that if an abyhasi loved him, a spiritual person that he is, his soul would feel it and he would not need to judge by conspicuous outward events? Here Chari uses manipulation. He said in substance: obey ostensibly so that I noticed, because then I know you love me. He said this to people indoctrinated whose dream is to receive some recognition of their idol, you can imagine perfectly what consequences this will produce.
When we are loving the Master and we are remembering him all the time, we use his powers
After titillating devotion and love among his brainwashed groupies, Chari plays another chord of the human soul, the lure for power. There would be an automatic transfer of the powers of the master in the dedicated, loving, obedient, abhyasi, therefore, which should finally convince you that you have everything to gain by blindly obeying the person above.
Obedience is the first law of spirituality. I place it above love because true obedience comes only with love
However, obedience is better than love because it follows it, and thus represents the next step in the process. In your opinion, what is more important, that the sun produces heat and energy or the life that is developing thanks to this energy?
It is not easy to love, but it's easy to obey. And it is my experience that if you just obey and go on and on, it is easier than trying to love somebody. So my advice to all abhyasis is, please become obedient
We therefore have the obedience that grows from love on the one hand, and on the other hand, the obedience which can exist without love, and apparently, it is a better practice because it is easier than love. Therefore, obedience may not arise from love?
As we grow more and more obedient, it shows an increasing love for the Master. (...) And when we absolutely love Him, we obey Him absolutely.
Mental Mishmash à la Chari, the more we obey the more we love? Finally NO! Sadomasochism, it also exists. And it has nothing to do with spirituality.
When we obey Him, we work for Him, He has to love us. It is not important whether I love the Master or not. The important thing is whether my Master loves me.
The association obedience-love is the best choice he could do to manipulate an audience characterized by emotional deprivation on the human level, and so indoctrinated to worship the guru as an idol. Pure manipulation.
We have to learn to love the Master. And when we obey Him without question, then we find the unfoldment of His miraculous powers.
And again the aberrant couple of obedience-power. There are only advantages to obey: We love and we will have his powers. However, obedience, is to submit, and therefore, is to lose any power. In addition, remember that Babuji said about the spiritual powers: that the master prevents their development. If it prevents development on the one hand, this does not give it to you with another, even if you submit. And first of all what powers? The only people that are important, they are making other human beings loving and spiritual, is not it?
It is love which is beyond even praised effort, even beyond everything else, because love for the Master alone can give you obedience to the Master. One who loves, obeys.
Obedience, remember what he said 5 passages above, is better than love because it is derived from it. Here, love is better than any (so that means "obedience") because it only makes you obedient. Imagine that you love someone and you realize that he/she is on the wrong path, do you obey him/her or not, do you disobey him/her with the idea of helping him/her? The association between love and obedience is caricatured and distorted, it is used solely for the purpose of manipulating abhyasis to produce the desired result: that they obey. Chari, in another speech, did he not say that love does not ask (need)?
Obedience is the fundamental virtue in the disciple, because Babuji has said, "One who is disciplined is a disciple" means obedience and discipline.
Discipline means obedience. The meaning of discipline is: the action of learning, principles, rules of life. A disciple is someone who learns new principles and rules of life, not an obedient slave.
There will be many people who will equate obedience with loss of freedom. It does not mean anything like that. I can not possibly obey unless I am free to obey. So only a free man obeys.
A man may be compelled to obey, so his assertion is questionable, because a free man will not obey others but himself or principles. But can we then say that even if he obeys, he is still a free man?
A prisoner has no choice. Can a prisoner disobey? He will be shot. So there, obedience is not obedience.
Yes, it's obedience, as he has a choice between living (obey) or die (disobey) and he chooses the first option. Extreme, but still obedience - if the definition he gave for obedience is correct. His examples are "silly" and his arguments are flawed. But for people who do not thnkn and for whom Chari is God, it is the gospel-truth.
Obedience means obeying (...) I am one, whom I consider myself higher than] (...)
Again this notion of pathological relationship of dominant-dominated. This is spirituality? Or love?
When we accept Him and obey Him and work for Him and become like Him, He is happy.
Another manipulative touch that was missing previously: making the idol happy. Could a devotee do without it?
And love for Master must be revealed in your love for all.
Let us call upon Chari to show us his love for me or other "dissidents" which he treated as dogs. This (inaccurate racial slur removed by blog owner) -salesman, is a swindler who, when subjected to real tests, demonstrates his usurping nature.
All obedience is for the sake of the self. Here also, it is for your sake that you are obedient.
It seems, in conclusion, that obedience is more for the good of the one whom we must obey, for himself, right?
Christian is a Phd in psychology and is a psycho-linguist. He was an abhyasis for 18 years and left the SRCM a few years ago and took a short journey in the ISRC of Narayana, Dr. Varadachari's son's Group.
Chari's words are in "purple italics"
Author and owner of this blog's (4d-don) comments are in "red italics"
Obersturmbannführer said: "Obey!"
In their toxic propaganda, the members of the Sri Rajagopal Chari Mission (tm) have placed on-line, free for viewing and downloading, a few books that expose the heart of Chari's doctrine.
This may seem generous on their part, but remember that not so long ago, SRCMtm did not have any works on-line for free. Any "product" was the subject of commerce, and we talked on the blogs of the contrast with the more healthy approach of the ISRC, which has always placed its material free on-line for the benefit of the students, whether they be members or outside the organization. Such a contrast was indeed indicative of the materialistic and anti-spiritual mood that reigned and still reigns at the SRCMtm.
First point, therefore, the free availability on the net is a response to our criticism so as to save face vis-a-vis the position of their competition - it is at best, nothing more than a marketing strategy. This is certainly not the spontaneous expression of generosity of spirit, contrary to what some in the SRCMtm claim.
A second point concerning the content must be raised: Chari's doctrine is an aberrant development of the teachings of Babuji, which should no longer be called Sahaj Marg, as it is based on principles completely contrary to the initial teachings. Note for example the trend towards control, domination and power, where Babuji established respect, service and love, "naturally".
From a psychological point of view, the elements contained in these texts are pure poisons, which are from a mental pathology, rather than holiness. Negative notions are mixed with positive notions to be acceptable, but they remain contaminants.
We chose to analyze the chapter "Obedience" (Series 4) to give you an overview of the doctrinal drift established by Chari, with some excerpts below. The entire text can be found at: http://www.sahajmarg.org/smrti/education/publications/salfeatures/series4/obedience/obedience.html
These extracts show how, whereas Babuji gently guided and respected - because it is not possible to do otherwise - due to the weaknesses and flaws of human nature, Chari passes to force that is apt to destroy spirituality.
Chari teaches submission to the supreme, ie the master, Chari himself, through which could the services of the divine could be assure to the creatures as to the creator. At the same time, he refuses to submit to certain aspects of creation, which need to be addressed with a attitude of subtlety, revealing his involvement in a political project, rather than in a divine plan.
The logical consequence which he faces is an impasse, in which he has no other option but to end his reign as best he can, by imposing an artificial and totalitarian control over some aspects of nature that he does not control. In the texts discussed here, for example he choses to force abhyasis by manipulative processes, to absolute obedience.
He can talk of love in his message to make it acceptable - a dance of love - the direction he gives to his followers remains contrary to that of expansion and enlightenment of the disciple, which have always been the path in the teachings of the saints.
He justifies this approach by doctrinal arguments presented in the books of propaganda of the Sahaj Marg Research and Teaching Institute (SMRTI), a case full of contradictions. We are not surprised that he asks that the abhyasis not think, in the case that with a time of reflection, they would realize the deception.
So the best disciple is the one who is most obedient. The highest disciple is the one who is absolutely obedient - not highest in spiritual evolution, which after all is always the gift of the Master. In Sahaj Marg, without obedience can be gained nothing, absolutely nothing. You may be the greatest tapasvi (one who does penance), twenty-four hours meditation, putting yourself like a piece of cloth at His door. I dare say you will not achieve anything.
Although there is no connection between obedience and spiritual development - which is what Chari said here - the disciple should be obedient to be a good disciple. Let us put things in perspective: Why does anyone come to see a spiritual master, what do they seek ? God or obedience? Does one atttain the divine by obeying a madman? What did Babuji say about such gurus? (one is better off without a guru at all, than with a bad Guru)
Obedience must be total
Do not think, just obey
If you think at all, you will necessarily get out of the clutches of the swindler, and he needs obedient slaves to run his business.
If anything will guarantee total success in spiritual life, it is obedience, because obedience means that we do not think of what he asks us to do, we do it.
Obedience means doing when He says "do", stopping when he says "Stop."
If you think about what the Master says, you are already on the road to destruction. You are not to think, because if you think, you are setting your thinking process against His. Babuji never thought for himself, his thinking was suspended when he had been to his master. He has written about it clearly. He said, "when I went to my Master for the first time, I never looked at anybody else." Not for me to think. Then what? Not for me to think, but only to obey.
Whereas in the first passage, Chari argued that obedience has nothing to do with spirituality, he says the opposite here. Chari also suggests that we should not think at all. According to him, to have one's own thought, is necessarily to have a thought that is against that of the master. But the thought of the master and the disciple may well be consistent and mutually reinforcing, particularly when the Master has correctly understood and correctly taught the teaching to the disciple and when this instruction is in line with reality.
Of course this is not the case if the teacher is a scam artist, in which case he must expect that the thought of his followers are opposed to his. Chari argues that there is danger of destruction if we think. He does not specify what he means, but knowing the context, one can imagine that by destruction, he is thinking of the destruction of the self. For example, the spiritual life of the disciple could be destroyed if he were to think. Perhaps thinking would lead to doubt, and doubt would lead one to seek for something else, hence to a movement to restore the disciple on the path to the Divine, and to extricate his/herself from the "spider-web" of Chari, which would be bad for the business of the latter.
Chari gives the example of Babuji, the supreme authority from which he derives his own without being embarrassed, to justify what he has to say and to have it be accepted. However, he lies. I asked abhyasis who knew Babuji in the 1970's, if things were happening as Chari relates them here. They denied it and explained how Babuji discussed everything with his associates. Babuji often asked for the opinions of the abhyasis, and if he proposed something, it sometimes happened that his associates argued against it, if they were in disagreement. Babuji then sat in meditation for the opinion of his master, and it sometimes happened that he came back with the confirmation of Lalaji ... that the abhyasi that was correct and that Babuji was wrong.
Babuji was never presented as a tyrant and giving orders, claiming absolute knowledge which everyone should abide completely, as Chari today. Babuji asked instead that his associates think and do their own research, to develop their discriminative intelligence and he enriched his own reflection with these interactions. His supreme reference was Lalaji, and not himself.
There is only one freedom and that is freedom to obey the Master.
It is a FREE affirmation, right?
When we are with the Master, we should not have desires - not even for a sitting, not even for Upadesam (advice), not even for questions and answers, nothing! We should be like the dog, which is just happy enough to lie down at the feet of the Master and look at his face!
Robotic-Abhyasis, Obedient dogs . 1984, Georges Orwell.
Abhyasis who claim to be devoted must realize that obedience is the first sign of devotion and where obedience is lacking, devotion can not be there.
Here Chari begins to manipulate his readers by using the leverage of devotion, a concept that gets good press to get people to obey. He said in essence: you claim to be devout, but if you are not blindly obeying you're not devout, hoping that this will get the devotees to submit.
It becomes the duty of preceptors to explain to abhyasis that, without obedience of the Master's instructions, spirituality becomes something which can not be practiced by such persons.
Here we are in a litigious and mechanical approach, not living in the approach of spirituality where the abhyasi would naturally be lead to implement the instructions of the teacher - not to obey - if he recognized that these are sensible are beneficial and help him achieve what he seeks or for which it has consulted the teacher or preceptor. Is it a natural path or a path that forces people?
Obedience, in the beginning, is a very difficult thing because it means subservience of our ego, our subjugation of ego, to a superior person. Therefore the ego rebels. Disobedience always comes by a rebellion of the ego. But people forget that when you are obedient you have no more responsibility for anything that you do, or do not do, under his order. (...) It is the liberation from the world. (...) This is liberation while I am alive - I assume. And I'm convinced in myself that this is Jivan mukti.
One might have doubted that when Chari speaks of the Master, he refers to a human being. Some dishonest people of the SRCMtm misuse that confusion between God and the Master, caused by the use of the same word for both, the word "Master." In this misuse towards which their endoctrination pushes them, they justify the delusional rantings of their idol. It is clear here that with the word "Master", Chari refers to a human being as he speaks of a "superior person". Babuji conceived of the living Master as a servant, not a "superior person". All Sufis consider God as the sole Master, and all the living teachers as His servants.
Is it possible that he has fallen so low that now Master Chari has become a "superior person"? Chari also speaks of submission of the ego. This conception reveals that he conceives of his relationship to the abhyasis as a power relationship, a relationship of domination, a power relationship between two human beings, not as a fraternal relationship based on spiritual values in which the ego does not matter. Chari then claims that if you're obedient you will not have any responsibility and will be released. If we consider the case of Babuji, who was totally obedient to his master Lalaji, we see that obedience was not free of heavy responsibilities, on the contrary.
Finally, if being obedient gave spiritual liberation, why did Chari say in the first exerpt presented above, that obedience makes one a good disciple but does not bring anything spiritually? When one lies, one always ends up contradicting oneself.
Loving Him, obeying Him, following Him, our responsibility does not exist anymore to anybody.
True, his goal is to make irresponsible fools of abhyasis. This is not spirituality, it is the opposite.
I always judge an abhyasi's love for the Master by the degree of obedience that is visible to us.
A sad confession: he needs to measure what is visible, thus materialized or utilitarian, the love of an abhyasi for himself. Do you not think that if an abyhasi loved him, a spiritual person that he is, his soul would feel it and he would not need to judge by conspicuous outward events? Here Chari uses manipulation. He said in substance: obey ostensibly so that I noticed, because then I know you love me. He said this to people indoctrinated whose dream is to receive some recognition of their idol, you can imagine perfectly what consequences this will produce.
When we are loving the Master and we are remembering him all the time, we use his powers
After titillating devotion and love among his brainwashed groupies, Chari plays another chord of the human soul, the lure for power. There would be an automatic transfer of the powers of the master in the dedicated, loving, obedient, abhyasi, therefore, which should finally convince you that you have everything to gain by blindly obeying the person above.
Obedience is the first law of spirituality. I place it above love because true obedience comes only with love
However, obedience is better than love because it follows it, and thus represents the next step in the process. In your opinion, what is more important, that the sun produces heat and energy or the life that is developing thanks to this energy?
It is not easy to love, but it's easy to obey. And it is my experience that if you just obey and go on and on, it is easier than trying to love somebody. So my advice to all abhyasis is, please become obedient
We therefore have the obedience that grows from love on the one hand, and on the other hand, the obedience which can exist without love, and apparently, it is a better practice because it is easier than love. Therefore, obedience may not arise from love?
As we grow more and more obedient, it shows an increasing love for the Master. (...) And when we absolutely love Him, we obey Him absolutely.
Mental Mishmash à la Chari, the more we obey the more we love? Finally NO! Sadomasochism, it also exists. And it has nothing to do with spirituality.
When we obey Him, we work for Him, He has to love us. It is not important whether I love the Master or not. The important thing is whether my Master loves me.
The association obedience-love is the best choice he could do to manipulate an audience characterized by emotional deprivation on the human level, and so indoctrinated to worship the guru as an idol. Pure manipulation.
We have to learn to love the Master. And when we obey Him without question, then we find the unfoldment of His miraculous powers.
And again the aberrant couple of obedience-power. There are only advantages to obey: We love and we will have his powers. However, obedience, is to submit, and therefore, is to lose any power. In addition, remember that Babuji said about the spiritual powers: that the master prevents their development. If it prevents development on the one hand, this does not give it to you with another, even if you submit. And first of all what powers? The only people that are important, they are making other human beings loving and spiritual, is not it?
It is love which is beyond even praised effort, even beyond everything else, because love for the Master alone can give you obedience to the Master. One who loves, obeys.
Obedience, remember what he said 5 passages above, is better than love because it is derived from it. Here, love is better than any (so that means "obedience") because it only makes you obedient. Imagine that you love someone and you realize that he/she is on the wrong path, do you obey him/her or not, do you disobey him/her with the idea of helping him/her? The association between love and obedience is caricatured and distorted, it is used solely for the purpose of manipulating abhyasis to produce the desired result: that they obey. Chari, in another speech, did he not say that love does not ask (need)?
Obedience is the fundamental virtue in the disciple, because Babuji has said, "One who is disciplined is a disciple" means obedience and discipline.
Discipline means obedience. The meaning of discipline is: the action of learning, principles, rules of life. A disciple is someone who learns new principles and rules of life, not an obedient slave.
There will be many people who will equate obedience with loss of freedom. It does not mean anything like that. I can not possibly obey unless I am free to obey. So only a free man obeys.
A man may be compelled to obey, so his assertion is questionable, because a free man will not obey others but himself or principles. But can we then say that even if he obeys, he is still a free man?
A prisoner has no choice. Can a prisoner disobey? He will be shot. So there, obedience is not obedience.
Yes, it's obedience, as he has a choice between living (obey) or die (disobey) and he chooses the first option. Extreme, but still obedience - if the definition he gave for obedience is correct. His examples are "silly" and his arguments are flawed. But for people who do not thnkn and for whom Chari is God, it is the gospel-truth.
Obedience means obeying (...) I am one, whom I consider myself higher than] (...)
Again this notion of pathological relationship of dominant-dominated. This is spirituality? Or love?
When we accept Him and obey Him and work for Him and become like Him, He is happy.
Another manipulative touch that was missing previously: making the idol happy. Could a devotee do without it?
And love for Master must be revealed in your love for all.
Let us call upon Chari to show us his love for me or other "dissidents" which he treated as dogs. This (inaccurate racial slur removed by blog owner) -salesman, is a swindler who, when subjected to real tests, demonstrates his usurping nature.
All obedience is for the sake of the self. Here also, it is for your sake that you are obedient.
It seems, in conclusion, that obedience is more for the good of the one whom we must obey, for himself, right?
Tuesday, February 17, 2009
Whispers 2, 3, 4... the Sequels! Just like Hollywood!
Taken from Alexis' Blog in France: Le Projet Sahaj Marg In the section: ARGENT (money), and in the article titled: : "Whispers", Le Maitre est un Redoutable Commercial
Comments by 4d-don in "italicized red".
"Whispers", the Master is a Mighty (Monster) Saleman!
(Last updated: 15 February 2009)
On 30 March 2005, Chari announced the upcoming release of a book, the content of which nobody knows anything. It is not yet printed. Its title, its authors and its contents are unknown! But to obtain this book, there is a demand of a donation of 250 € to the Sahaj Marg Spirituality Foundation (SMSF ®), "based on trust" with respect to Chari. Because after April 15, 2005, it will be too late "even if you come with a lakh rupees." (Chari)
Chari's extensive commercial enterprise defends itself: "For once in your life, you have a book "future". And your future is linked to this book. I will not mention this again because I have not come here to ask for money. " (underlined by the SRCM).
On 1 May, 2005, in his speech to the American abhyasis at Tiruppur, Chari returns to the subject. Before his speech in March, he had only 800-1,000 orders, but by April 15th, the figures stood at 5, 200 copies. "Knowledge is unnecessary, so long as you have faith. Because if you did not have trust me, you would not buy that book." Indeed, we must have faith to buy a book for more than 1,600 FF. (1 FF= .20 US or .15 Euros), when we know nothing of its content ...
In the meantime, this small operation has reported a whopping of at least 1.3 million Euros.
And it's not over, Chari prohibited the French translation of the book, including even the translation of some passages, and a French version was announced in September 2005 for publication in January 2007 at a cost of 300 € per copy. "Given the amount, a payment is possible, however the total to be paid at 31 December 05 (...) note that each copy of this book is personal." Clearly, no collective purchase is authorized by Chari.
Testimonial:
Frank Waaldijk, former abhyasi of Sahaj Marg for 12 years in the Netherlands (1993-2005), says he was upset by the price of "Whispers". He offered to sell it to the wealthy, who could then redistribute it in the centers. He was told that because of his position (Zonal-in-charge, Netherlands), he should never say such a thing and many abhyasis have stopped speaking with him. He adds that this book was presented as something unique for their spiritual progress and that some desperate abhyasis were not able to buy it. But in fact, "Whispers" contained nothing new, always the same advertising for the METHOD and for the MASTER, Chari. So it was only to raise money. Best would have earned us say we want to do this, we need both, you can help us ...
The complete English commentary of that old abhyasi and "zonal-in-charge-Netherlands", can be read on the Elodie's blog, by clicking here. He also created his own blog "Pitfalls of Spirituality".
2009: it begins again ...
The history of SRCM stutters! At Satkhol, February 2, 2009, Chari announced the upcoming release of a second volume of "Whispers" entitled 'Whispers From the Brighter World - A second Revelation' to be published on 30 April, 2009. The deadline for subscription is set at 25 February, 2009.
"It will be mostly Messages from Babuji Maharaj, from Lalaji Maharaj, but also from some other highly spiritual "SPIRITS". We all know that the first volume was published some years ago, this will be the second volume. The third volume will appear in 2010 and fourth in 2011. The importance of these messages can not be expressed in words, but you must read and felt.
There was no set price for this invaluable book containing the (channeled) messages, but it will be extended to all abhyasis from Europe who make a donation of € 250 (two hundred and fifty Euros) for the Corpus Fund 'Sahaj MARG SPIRITUALITY FOUNDATION. The donation must be accompanied by the attached form and a check / DD payable at Chennai to the order of Sahaj MARG SPIRITUALITY FOUNDATION. "
So 4 times € 250 or € 1, 000 for all 4 volumes of "Whispers", that Chari hopes to recover from one and all. Except that on 13 February, 2009, he finally decided to offer a discount of € 100, the minimum amount of the donation now is 150 € instead of 250 for the second volume. If you have already paid € 250 for fear of missing this unique appearance of these (channeled) words "from beyond the grave", you actually have been had, one more time. At the SRCM, one should never rush (to purchase), the deadlines are always extended, the price can be changed, or even you can eventually find the daily contents of the book on the website of the Mission, while you were assured that its content was reserved exclusively for those who had subscribed in the initial period ...
One can also add that the French version is not on the agenda, according to Ajay Bhatter (Guru in waiting), and that this is not envisaged before 2012. So, dear French abhyasis, if you want to read it now, it is € 150 NOW and once again, we do not know how many euros it will cost in 2012 to have the pleasure of reading it in French, which would still be more pleasant . Recall that the previous French version had been marketed at 300 €, while the English version was at 250 Euros!
The other aspect is totally financial. Chari decrease the rate of this "book that has no price" by 40% in one fell swoop. This would mean that the first volume has enabled him to earn at least an extra € 100 profit per copy, and the Mission is not in the habit of working at a loss. On 15 April 2005, he had sold 5 200 copies. Do the math ... (what a shrewd scam)
The first issue has funded the LMOIS school, (along with money diverted from other countries accounts by replacing the majority of the "Board of Directors" with "non-residents" and those loyal to Chari: Canada= $60,000.00?) the following issue comes to balance the SRCM accounts after Chari went to check the state of its finances in Dubai in October, 2008. Remember the financial crisis?
I would wager that he will return soon with suitcases full of banknotes earned through the sale of this second volume! Unless his confidence in Emirati banks has evaporated ...
Comments by 4d-don in "italicized red".
"Whispers", the Master is a Mighty (Monster) Saleman!
(Last updated: 15 February 2009)
On 30 March 2005, Chari announced the upcoming release of a book, the content of which nobody knows anything. It is not yet printed. Its title, its authors and its contents are unknown! But to obtain this book, there is a demand of a donation of 250 € to the Sahaj Marg Spirituality Foundation (SMSF ®), "based on trust" with respect to Chari. Because after April 15, 2005, it will be too late "even if you come with a lakh rupees." (Chari)
Chari's extensive commercial enterprise defends itself: "For once in your life, you have a book "future". And your future is linked to this book. I will not mention this again because I have not come here to ask for money. " (underlined by the SRCM).
On 1 May, 2005, in his speech to the American abhyasis at Tiruppur, Chari returns to the subject. Before his speech in March, he had only 800-1,000 orders, but by April 15th, the figures stood at 5, 200 copies. "Knowledge is unnecessary, so long as you have faith. Because if you did not have trust me, you would not buy that book." Indeed, we must have faith to buy a book for more than 1,600 FF. (1 FF= .20 US or .15 Euros), when we know nothing of its content ...
In the meantime, this small operation has reported a whopping of at least 1.3 million Euros.
And it's not over, Chari prohibited the French translation of the book, including even the translation of some passages, and a French version was announced in September 2005 for publication in January 2007 at a cost of 300 € per copy. "Given the amount, a payment is possible, however the total to be paid at 31 December 05 (...) note that each copy of this book is personal." Clearly, no collective purchase is authorized by Chari.
Testimonial:
Frank Waaldijk, former abhyasi of Sahaj Marg for 12 years in the Netherlands (1993-2005), says he was upset by the price of "Whispers". He offered to sell it to the wealthy, who could then redistribute it in the centers. He was told that because of his position (Zonal-in-charge, Netherlands), he should never say such a thing and many abhyasis have stopped speaking with him. He adds that this book was presented as something unique for their spiritual progress and that some desperate abhyasis were not able to buy it. But in fact, "Whispers" contained nothing new, always the same advertising for the METHOD and for the MASTER, Chari. So it was only to raise money. Best would have earned us say we want to do this, we need both, you can help us ...
The complete English commentary of that old abhyasi and "zonal-in-charge-Netherlands", can be read on the Elodie's blog, by clicking here. He also created his own blog "Pitfalls of Spirituality".
2009: it begins again ...
The history of SRCM stutters! At Satkhol, February 2, 2009, Chari announced the upcoming release of a second volume of "Whispers" entitled 'Whispers From the Brighter World - A second Revelation' to be published on 30 April, 2009. The deadline for subscription is set at 25 February, 2009.
"It will be mostly Messages from Babuji Maharaj, from Lalaji Maharaj, but also from some other highly spiritual "SPIRITS". We all know that the first volume was published some years ago, this will be the second volume. The third volume will appear in 2010 and fourth in 2011. The importance of these messages can not be expressed in words, but you must read and felt.
There was no set price for this invaluable book containing the (channeled) messages, but it will be extended to all abhyasis from Europe who make a donation of € 250 (two hundred and fifty Euros) for the Corpus Fund 'Sahaj MARG SPIRITUALITY FOUNDATION. The donation must be accompanied by the attached form and a check / DD payable at Chennai to the order of Sahaj MARG SPIRITUALITY FOUNDATION. "
So 4 times € 250 or € 1, 000 for all 4 volumes of "Whispers", that Chari hopes to recover from one and all. Except that on 13 February, 2009, he finally decided to offer a discount of € 100, the minimum amount of the donation now is 150 € instead of 250 for the second volume. If you have already paid € 250 for fear of missing this unique appearance of these (channeled) words "from beyond the grave", you actually have been had, one more time. At the SRCM, one should never rush (to purchase), the deadlines are always extended, the price can be changed, or even you can eventually find the daily contents of the book on the website of the Mission, while you were assured that its content was reserved exclusively for those who had subscribed in the initial period ...
One can also add that the French version is not on the agenda, according to Ajay Bhatter (Guru in waiting), and that this is not envisaged before 2012. So, dear French abhyasis, if you want to read it now, it is € 150 NOW and once again, we do not know how many euros it will cost in 2012 to have the pleasure of reading it in French, which would still be more pleasant . Recall that the previous French version had been marketed at 300 €, while the English version was at 250 Euros!
The other aspect is totally financial. Chari decrease the rate of this "book that has no price" by 40% in one fell swoop. This would mean that the first volume has enabled him to earn at least an extra € 100 profit per copy, and the Mission is not in the habit of working at a loss. On 15 April 2005, he had sold 5 200 copies. Do the math ... (what a shrewd scam)
The first issue has funded the LMOIS school, (along with money diverted from other countries accounts by replacing the majority of the "Board of Directors" with "non-residents" and those loyal to Chari: Canada= $60,000.00?) the following issue comes to balance the SRCM accounts after Chari went to check the state of its finances in Dubai in October, 2008. Remember the financial crisis?
I would wager that he will return soon with suitcases full of banknotes earned through the sale of this second volume! Unless his confidence in Emirati banks has evaporated ...
Sunday, February 15, 2009
Defection from SRCM(California-1997) to Kasturi
Taken from Shashwat's blog: The Cult of Sahaj Marg (Shree Ram Chandra Mission) in a Feb. 15, 2009 "how-to" article called "Leaving Sahaj Marg"
It is a letter from an abhyasis in Singapore called Debashis, originally posted in the "comments" section of Kasturi Bhenji's blog (Feb 11, 2009):
Dear Brother,
I am an abhyasi currently located in Singapore. I have been practising Sahaj Marg since 1993. We used to have a very knowledgable preceptor named Brother Bala who was appointed a preceptor by Babuji in 1977 and I used to practice under his guidance. Unfortunately, brother Bala passed away in 2007 and since then we have been quite disillusioned by the new management. I feel that we are moving far away from spirituality and becoming a commercial organization.
I protested against the state of affairs and was ostracised and harassed in several ways. Since then I have stopped going to the Satsanghs.
There are several interested seekers here who are looking for guidance…. We donot have any good preceptors after Brother Bala to guide us. There are some abhyasis who have practised for over 10 years and decided to discontinue the practice because of the new management. Could you please discuss this situation with Sister Kasturi and let us know how to pursue our spiritual journey? Since we are physically far away, is it possible to give us a distance sitting or appoint a preceptor in Singapore who can guide us?
Regards,
Debashis
February 11, 2009 10:38:00 AM PST
It is a letter from an abhyasis in Singapore called Debashis, originally posted in the "comments" section of Kasturi Bhenji's blog (Feb 11, 2009):
Dear Brother,
I am an abhyasi currently located in Singapore. I have been practising Sahaj Marg since 1993. We used to have a very knowledgable preceptor named Brother Bala who was appointed a preceptor by Babuji in 1977 and I used to practice under his guidance. Unfortunately, brother Bala passed away in 2007 and since then we have been quite disillusioned by the new management. I feel that we are moving far away from spirituality and becoming a commercial organization.
I protested against the state of affairs and was ostracised and harassed in several ways. Since then I have stopped going to the Satsanghs.
There are several interested seekers here who are looking for guidance…. We donot have any good preceptors after Brother Bala to guide us. There are some abhyasis who have practised for over 10 years and decided to discontinue the practice because of the new management. Could you please discuss this situation with Sister Kasturi and let us know how to pursue our spiritual journey? Since we are physically far away, is it possible to give us a distance sitting or appoint a preceptor in Singapore who can guide us?
Regards,
Debashis
February 11, 2009 10:38:00 AM PST
Bollywood (SRCM) Releases: WHISPERS, The Sequel!
Taken from Elodie's Blog in France: Pour Que Vive le Sahaj Marg or "The Desperate Abhyasi"
The Bollywood STAR factory and MONEY-Making Pyramid scheme of the SRCM(California-1997) is going for another POOL OF MONEY from their adoring (living dead) fans".
In Hollywood, first we had ROCKY, then since it made money, we got ROCKY ll and ROCKY lll, etc... In the SRCM, the "SPIRITUAL" Pyramidal Sales mechanism will kick in with the pressure going to the zonal-in-charge, then to the preceptors and then to the the "foot soldiers" to have the book distributed for a donation of a mere: $250.00 so as to avoid paying taxes in the country of sale. SO MUCH FOR THE GOOD CITIZENS in the SPIRITUAL movement. Spirituality does not mean "honest, ethical, moral", but just opportunist, and profiteer. And all this to get a series of "channeled messages" from a French Lady medium. And the messages come from: ??? "only the SHADOW" really knows".
But SRCM(California-1997) will continue to expand and the "inner circle" will continue to travel and urge the "serfs" to celebrate their many "birthdays" and other emotional, sensual and ogasmic parties, even in these "hard times". The families of the poor "serfs" will subsidize them, the wealthy, yet again, so as to have their "samskaras erased". WHEWW! Thank the ONE (their male god) for that! They have a signed contract (covenant) with the ONE. So there in no chance that this is a SCAM or a MONEY scheme. TRUST ME!
Elodie said:
Whispers returns!
After the first "Whispers", Chari announced three more volumes (Whispers l, ll, lll) in the next three years, probably for three times 250 euros.
It is a sad reminder of a sinister event that was lost to (my) memory.
After the auctions that were held during the meditations, it is the launching of this book in 2005 that prompted me to create this blog. My first message in January 2006 began:
"Chariji asked us to buy this book with our eyes closed. It was not yet printed, he had no title and Chariji refused to tell us what was inside.
He told us to pay 250 €, just that, because we had to trust him. After that, it would be too late, even if we gave him millions. "
"In my center, given the amount, all abhyasis pooled their money together so as to purchase a copy. But once, we found that the book was in English and we were forbidden to translate it and even to quote extracts from it as a group. The official reason was that a French version would come later. "
"Indeed, in the fall, we were asked for 300 € for the French version, to be paid before the end of 2005, but only available in early 2007! And we were forbidden to purchase as a Group ... "
"At the risk of displeasing Chariji, these sales practices are worthy of a commercia enterprise, not a spiritual organization. "
"I do not know of many books that cost as much, all accounts to the author. So it will only be for the richest among us. Unless one choses to disobey."
"Are these methods normal for a spiritual organization? "
2005 is the year when money became more important than meditation. Many have responded to the blog, and abhyasis began deserted the ranks of the Mission at that time. We learned later that much of this money was used to finance the "Private Boarding) school (LMOIS). It may have been more helpful to inform us in advance.
Now, the story begins again. What has changed since then?
Ajay Kumar Bhatter says that this book has no price but it is reserved for those who donate 250 euros before the end of February (2009). What then is the money for this time? And it will begin again in 2010, and again in 2011. Why does Chariji and the Mission need all that money? What are their plans? Would it not be fairer to "express their colors" in advance?
The story begins again, and nothing has changed. It is quite a long time ago that Sahaj Marg was a true spiritual path. It has now become a formidable factory to create money, and nothing else.
The Bollywood STAR factory and MONEY-Making Pyramid scheme of the SRCM(California-1997) is going for another POOL OF MONEY from their adoring (living dead) fans".
In Hollywood, first we had ROCKY, then since it made money, we got ROCKY ll and ROCKY lll, etc... In the SRCM, the "SPIRITUAL" Pyramidal Sales mechanism will kick in with the pressure going to the zonal-in-charge, then to the preceptors and then to the the "foot soldiers" to have the book distributed for a donation of a mere: $250.00 so as to avoid paying taxes in the country of sale. SO MUCH FOR THE GOOD CITIZENS in the SPIRITUAL movement. Spirituality does not mean "honest, ethical, moral", but just opportunist, and profiteer. And all this to get a series of "channeled messages" from a French Lady medium. And the messages come from: ??? "only the SHADOW" really knows".
But SRCM(California-1997) will continue to expand and the "inner circle" will continue to travel and urge the "serfs" to celebrate their many "birthdays" and other emotional, sensual and ogasmic parties, even in these "hard times". The families of the poor "serfs" will subsidize them, the wealthy, yet again, so as to have their "samskaras erased". WHEWW! Thank the ONE (their male god) for that! They have a signed contract (covenant) with the ONE. So there in no chance that this is a SCAM or a MONEY scheme. TRUST ME!
Elodie said:
Whispers returns!
After the first "Whispers", Chari announced three more volumes (Whispers l, ll, lll) in the next three years, probably for three times 250 euros.
It is a sad reminder of a sinister event that was lost to (my) memory.
After the auctions that were held during the meditations, it is the launching of this book in 2005 that prompted me to create this blog. My first message in January 2006 began:
"Chariji asked us to buy this book with our eyes closed. It was not yet printed, he had no title and Chariji refused to tell us what was inside.
He told us to pay 250 €, just that, because we had to trust him. After that, it would be too late, even if we gave him millions. "
"In my center, given the amount, all abhyasis pooled their money together so as to purchase a copy. But once, we found that the book was in English and we were forbidden to translate it and even to quote extracts from it as a group. The official reason was that a French version would come later. "
"Indeed, in the fall, we were asked for 300 € for the French version, to be paid before the end of 2005, but only available in early 2007! And we were forbidden to purchase as a Group ... "
"At the risk of displeasing Chariji, these sales practices are worthy of a commercia enterprise, not a spiritual organization. "
"I do not know of many books that cost as much, all accounts to the author. So it will only be for the richest among us. Unless one choses to disobey."
"Are these methods normal for a spiritual organization? "
2005 is the year when money became more important than meditation. Many have responded to the blog, and abhyasis began deserted the ranks of the Mission at that time. We learned later that much of this money was used to finance the "Private Boarding) school (LMOIS). It may have been more helpful to inform us in advance.
Now, the story begins again. What has changed since then?
Ajay Kumar Bhatter says that this book has no price but it is reserved for those who donate 250 euros before the end of February (2009). What then is the money for this time? And it will begin again in 2010, and again in 2011. Why does Chariji and the Mission need all that money? What are their plans? Would it not be fairer to "express their colors" in advance?
The story begins again, and nothing has changed. It is quite a long time ago that Sahaj Marg was a true spiritual path. It has now become a formidable factory to create money, and nothing else.
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