Sunday, February 22, 2009

Translation and Transcript of Sister Kasturi interview! (Feb. 20, 2009)

Taken from Shashwat's blog: The Cult of Sahaj Marg (Shree Ram Chandra Mission)

Complete transcript: updated Feb 23, 2009....

Kasturi Chaturvedi explains Sahaj Marg

Complete transcript of conversation of Shashwat Pandey with Kasturi Chaturvedi Feb. 20, 2009

Interview can be downloaded here (click on "Free"... Enter code shown at top right of page and press either "open" or "save to file" (file size: 11.96MB))

Alternate link to download this conversation is here

Note by 4d-Don: Sister Kasturi Chaturvedi, the daughter of Judge M.L. Chaturvedi, of the High Court of India, was called by Babuji: The only Saint in Sahaj Marg. Her father became a disciple of Babuji at the beginning of his Mission and Sister Kasturi joined in 1948. The Shri Ram Chandra Mission was registered in India by the founder in 1945. (see blog of Sister Kasturi's followers)

Chari' s group (also called the Shri Ram Chandra Mission) is registered in San Luis Obispo, California, in 1997, and the Sahaj Marg Research and Teaching Institute (SMRTI) was registered by Chari in Austin, Texas in 1997. Chari also changed the "board of directors" of other national organizations called "Shri Ram Chandra Mission", thus controlling from India, and the USA, the "international" missions with Santosh Khanjee, hotel owner and real estate developer, now living in Austin, Texas and a few other "loyalists" of Chari. This interview with Sister Kasturi Chaturvedi, will explain a little more, what happened in India, with the SRCM.


(See Comments by Alexis from France, below)

Below is the translation of this interview in English.

Me: hello

Someone:- yes

Me: I am calling from Delhi, my name is Shashwat, I wanted to talk to Kasturi Bhenji

Someone:- hold on

Kasturi Bhenji comes on phone

Kasturiji:- hello

Me:- is this Kasturiji?

Kasturiji:- yes

Me:- Namaskar, my name is Shashwat and I am calling from Delhi

Kasturi:- hmm

Me:- I wanted to talk to you about Sahaj Marg, is this the right time to talk?

Kasturiji:- no

Me:- So.. we cannot talk today?

Kasturiji:- today in my home there is satsang, some people have come so I will go there, but why don’t you talk to someone there, there are many people in that place.

Me:- where?

Kasturiji:- there in Delhi..

Me:-Actually I have reached Delhi just few days back and I will return back soon, I don’t live in India, I live in the US.

Kasturiji:- ok, but there are many people in Delhi, there are people in Dilshaad garden, there are many people there.

Me:- I know Navneet here..

Kasturiji:- Yes Yes, but how long can you talk on phone?

Me:- I just wanted to know 2-3 things, it will hardly take few minutes.

Kasturiji:- ok, go ahead

Me:- my first question is about linage of Sahaj Marg, Lalaji, Babuji and Chariji, but a few days back I read on internet that Lalaji was not directly related to Sahaj Marg, what is your opinion about that?

Kasturiji:- It is like this, Lalaji was not related to Sahaj marg, only Babuji Maharaj is there.

Me:- ok

Kasturiji:-like there is lord Krishna and lord Rama, there are many sages and saints who worshiped him to come down to earth, but lord is one only, similarly, Lalaji got Babuji on earth, when there is birth, there is order for that, Lalaji by his prayers, tried to get Babuji on earth, Lalaji was not the lord. Babuji is the lord, Lalaji just prayed for him to come down on earth, lord is only Babuji, it is like this.. and this is what is called Shri Ram Chandra Mission.

Me:- very good, my second question is about current master of Sahaj Marg, Chariji.. what is your opinion about him.

Kasturiji:- no no, he is not the master of Sahaj Marg, it is like this, whenever any organization is started, like Shri Ram Chandra Mission is an organization which is registered, people are left behind as a caretaker, for example, a manager, who’s work is to oversee day to day activities, like when abhyasis come, then manager should arrange for his worshiping etc, his task is only to manage, that's all, and this is what happens in all spiritual organizations, like Buddha left someone, Vivekananda left someone, it happens everywhere, similarly Chariji was assigned the task to manage the organization, not spirituality, its everywhere, like there is a manager to manage an organization, he is that only, a manager.

Me:- so do you mean to say, like Babuji was master of Sahaj Marg, Chariji is not a master of Sahaj Marg, is this what you are trying to say?

Kasturiji:- No, chariji cannot be the master, understand it like this, like Ramkrishna mission, have you ever heard that there is any other master other then Ramkrishna? Did Vivekanada become master of RK Mission? Or anyone else?

Me:- No, it never happened like that..

Kasturi:- master is only one, and that is Babuji, to run the mission, anyone can do that. Chariji is like that only.

Me:- actually since it is presented that Lalaji, Babuji and Chariji are masters of Sahaj Marg, therefore there is some element of confusion here.

Kasturiji:- lord is only one, team anyone can make, Meera always said one, Surdaas said one, Kabir said one, everyone said, there is one lord, so there cannot be many masters of Sahaj Marg, Babuji did not make only one Chariji, he made many people like Chariji.

Me:- ok, I got it.

Kasturiji:- lord is only one, but for management, there are 10 people.

Me:- ok, very fine.

Kasturiji:- good.

Me:- I had one more question, Chariji on Jan 29, 2001 said that a women cannot effectively execute duty of a master of Sahaj Marg, what is your opinion about this.

Kasturiji:- it is like this, Chariji joined the mission in 1964, and I joined the mission in 1948, in front of him, Babuji made me a preceptor, and I made his wife also a preceptor.

Me:- you mean Sulochana?

Kasturiji:- Yes, I have given transmission to him many time, Babuji asked to do that.. so this statement is false on it own, and he is also doing the same, this statement is wrong on its own.

Me:- I am delighted to know your thoughts, I have one more question, recently there is a book published by Sahaj Marg, called "Whispers From the Brighter World", which is said to contain messages from Lalaji and Babuji, and these messages are sold at a price of 250 euro’s which is approximately 12,000, Indian rupees, kindly throw some light on this as to what is this brighter world and what are these messages from the "brighter world".

Kasturiji:- I have written the truth about these things in my book, because I know, that these things are going to be very harmful for the mission in future, this will not convey the correct message, you tell me one thing, did Chariji hear the name of “brighter world” during Babuji’s time, or before him or after him?

Me:- (pause) you are correct.

Kasturiji:-(where) ever did he hear this name?

Me:- you are correct, this all started since 2005 onwards

Kasturiji:- even Chariji, he also use to do worship before, many big names use to visit him, did he ever hear this name “brighter world” (laughs..) and then there are messages from this place!! I will tell you the truth, and I have cleared this in my book, whenever someone is asked to come down to earth for some work, suppose Babuji was asked to come to earth for spirituality, there are some personalities who know before hand, that this divine personality will come down to work, such personalities leave their pleasure and allow themselves to protect that divine personality like a bodyguard, like lord Shankar, Narad Muni, and many others, whenever such personalities come down, they all are ready to serve such a personality, these are people who stay back after leaving earth, and they get the job done, they will inform, like you need to do this, you did a good job, but you need to do this also, and there is nothing of this kind in Chariji’s diary, I have read that diary.. it only contains information like, he is praising him, she is praising that fellow.. like this.. if there is expression of any kind of relation, than it is totally false, because relation are that place when spirituality ends, there are no relation for such people, all relations are part of earth, and they are left behind in this world only, when you leave this world then only divine bliss exists, and there are no relations there.. and in Chariji’s diary, all it contains is relations… I have not written his name because he is head of our mission currently, I have not taken any name, but I have answered everything, so that people can come to know the truth.

Me:- you have done a wonderful thing, I wanted to know one more thing, your personal view about religion (9:35)

Kasturiji explains religion till 10:10.

Me:- there is a saying in Sahaj Marg, “religion divides spirituality unites”

Kasturiji:- this is totally wrong..Babuji said, when religion ends, spirituality begins, and when spirituality ends, reality begins, I have written everything in my book.

Me:- you have informed us of a wonderful thing, because such kind of statements make people go away from Sahaj Marg, because it gives a very wrong message about Sahaj Marg, that it is against religion, for example I am a Hindu, and in Sahaj Marg, they say Hindu religion is corrupt.

Kasturiji:- I am saying this, how can anyone follow any religion, if you are a Hindu, that means you are a Hindu, you don’t need to follow Hindu religion, you are already a Hindu. Where does the question of following religion come, either you are a Hindu or you are not… there is no question of following any religion, same is true for Muslims, they are Muslims and they do what others do..

Me:- very nice, do you know Navneetji personally?

Kasturiji:- no I don’t know him personally

Me:- you don’t know him personally?

Kasturiji:- no personally I don’t know him.

Me:- I have read in newspaper that their Ashram in Shahjahanpur was captured after beating Navneet's mother and her old brother… are you aware of that?

Kasturiji:- yes, there is a criminal case pending in that regard.

Me:- yes, chargesheet has also been filed in this regard, against Chariji, Uma Sahnker Bajpai. And others..

Kasturiji:- it is like this, you were asked to manage the mission, and a person who is suppose to manage a spiritual system, he must have a balanced state, such a person is never angry, such a person should not cause pain to anyone, when these things reduce… its sad.. is it not a matter of shame for the mission that such a case is registered against him? Is it not a matter of shame that such a case is there in a spiritual mission?

Me: yes you are right, it’s a matter of shame..

Kasturiji:- our mission is based on brotherhood, there is no-one who is big, or small, if someone is giving transmission, only during that time, he is big, else he is just an abhyasi and nothing more..

Me:- so what is your stand on this, Umeshji expired soon after, I think, they attacked the mission immediately after his death..

Kasturiji:- they simply occupied it..as if they declared a war and forcefully captured many ashrams like in Vijawada, and some more.. almost all ashrams created during Babuji’s time forcefully.. this was the reason why I said I will not continue with you !! I will stay at feet of Babuji and I will not support you.

Me:- you did the right thing, because what is apparent is quite painful, I know people in France and there life have been devastated by these things..

Kasturiji:- this is what is bound to happen, many life’s have been devastated, I also know, there is something more you should know, no-one becomes spiritual suddenly, it takes time, Meera was a devotee since her childhood and reached that state after a period of time, but here what happens is there is lot of money, and when there is no accounting for donations what else will happen? What (does) money bring? Unrest, loose character, bad behaviour, these are the things which money brings and this is what causes problems..

Me:- yes you are very correct, last time when I visited India, I visited Navneet and his mother, unfortunately I could not meet you personally, therefore I thought that maybe I willl talk to you over phone and get your blessings.

Kasturiji:- whenever you come here, do visit my place.

Me:- no I will return back on 4th.

Kasturiji:- no problems I will be visiting some places in south India on 23 and I will return back on 6th, Babuji Maharaj had asked me to help people as long as I can.. so this is what I will do.. Babuji was very much against concept of donation, he had said that he will erase the name of donation from his mission, but this is exactly what he is doing..

Me:- its sad..

Kasturiji:- these were the reasons as why I said that I will not come with you (to Chari)!! Because this behaviour is totally against the teachings of Babuji, but it's ok..

Me:- do you know Uma Shankar Bajpai who is on board of Sahaj Marg Spirituality Foundation, he lives in Allahabad..

Kasturiji:- I know them very well, that why I never meet them.

Me:- what is your opinion about these people..

Kasturiji:- that’s why I don’t meet them

Me: ok

Kasturiji:- instead of saying anything, when you find that spirituality is far far away, its better not to visit that place, and then say anything about it.

Me:- ok.. does it means that they are not very good people?

Kasturiji:- this is the reason as why I don’t visit them.

Me:- by any chance do you know S.K Shukla ?

Kasturiji:- they may have joined later, I don’t know them.

Me:- ok.. I know family of Uma Shanker Bajpai, but unfortunately now my relation is very bad with them..

Kasturiji:- if you happen to visit here, do meet me.. you will get all the answers

Me:- sure I will try my best.. I just wanted to know two more things.. your opinion about these two things.. after which I will say thanks to you..


Me:- first is... Navneetji has filed a case regarding ownership of Sahaj Marg and SRCM, in which he has produced a letter of nomination in supreme court of India, case is still pending, what is your opinion in this regards

Kasturiji:- how many people have this letter of nomination? There are many people with this kind of letter of nomination.

Me:- I could not understand

Kasturiji:- its better not to get involved in these things..

Me:- it is for my information only… nothing else..

Kasturiji:- I am telling this for your information only!! Nobody has anything..

Me:- ok.. so according to you, chariji was asked to manage the group!!

Kasturiji:- yes, for management only.

Me:- like a secretary or something like that..

Kasturiji:- exactly, only for management, (not related to spirituality)

Me:- so what is the contribution of Umesh Chandra in this?

Kasturiji:- there is no contribution from anyone, he was Babuji’s son, all that he could do as a son that was all his contribution.

Me:- interesting..

Kasturiji:- he wanted to become that… that all, these things are useless.. (laughs..) and I am not interested in this either, I never try to know these things..

Me:- Actually I have seen the documents submitted in supreme court of India, I have seen both the nomination letters, one of 1983, which is in favour of Umesh Chandra and that of Chariji which was that of 1974.. and I got the signature verified by an expert on both the documents…

Kasturiji:- I have not seen anything, I have never seen any nomination letter for anyone!! Babuji taught me meditation and service to abhyaisis and that's all I know, I don’t know anything else..

Me:- Actually I came across someone who said that Babuji appointed Chariji as his spiritual representative in your presence, like you are a witness for Chariji’s appointment.

Kasturiji:- this is totally wrong!!

Me:- so this is not true!!

Kasturiji:- laughs.. these people can say anything..

Me:- yes, even I was also surprised by this, because when I read about you on internet, my first impression was that, that you are a very honest woman, and I had this desire in me, that if I am able to meet you or if I am able to talk to you, I will consider myself as very lucky, but when I came to know this.. I was a bit surprised, I happen to know someone in Canada, and I was informed that appointment of Chariji took place in your presence.. I was taken aback with this information because I could not digest the fact that if Babuji was a divine personality, then he cannot make a person like Chariji his spiritual representative.

Kasturiji:- when you can understand this, Babuji was Babuji.. got it?

Me:- yes I got it.. I am really pleased to know this.. now my last question; my last question to you is, what is your comment for Sahaj Marg, given the current situation of Sahaj Marg, like Chariji arranges marriages inside his group, there are divorces in Sahaj Marg, very young children are separated from their parents, in Lalaji memorial school in Chennai..

Kasturiji:- you answer this question yourself.. is this what is known as spirituality?

Me:- No, but what is your opinion about these things..

Kasturiji:- my view is simple.. these were the very reasons as why I left that group..

Me:- ok..

Kasturiji:- Babuji Maharaj has told us that the Mission is one family, which has only one point of view, everyone should stay in support for each other.. and one more thing Babuji Maharaj said, that he has infused a life of brotherhood in his Mission, and if this life has a feeling of brotherhood, that means you have joined the Mission properly, but if any other feeling is there in you.. then you have not joined the Mission properly.

Me:- did Babuji during his life time, ever arranged anyone's marriage?

Kasturiji:- Never.. he was very much against these kinds of things.. he was very clear, there will not be any hospitals in ashram, no post office will be there in any ashram, all the ashrams will be very small, so that not much land is used in building these ashrams and farmers land should not be used for building ashrams.. minimum money should be spend, because this money if from abhyasis.. it is abhyasi who pays for these things therefore spend minimum money possible.

Me:- So, it means Babuji never arranged any marriage during his lifetime.

Kasturiji:- Never, Never..

Me:- fair enough.. actually there is a statement from Chariji wherein he says that there is an order from Lalaji that abhyasis of Sahaj Marg must marry each other..

Kasturiji:- (laughs..) was he present at that time?

Me:- (laugh..) I could not understand this.. even today!! How come Lalaji gave this order?

Kasturiji:- you tell me.. he says this is an order.. was he present at that time???

Me:- how can he be present at that time, he was probably not even born at that time..(laughs)

Kasturiji:- (laughs).. don’t get involved in these things son, take only that which is good!! Sahaj Marg system teaches us to become like saints.. rise above humans and become like saints.. consider everyone your own, and love everyone, and move towards peace and happiness.. good enough?

Me:- yes


Kasturiji:- remember this only !! and whenever you get an opportunity do visit me..

Me:- definitely, I will try my best to meet you !! the last thing which I wanted to inform you, just in case you are not aware.. in a report published by a committee of French government, and also in Belgium, it is stated that practice of Sahaj Marg is psychologically harmful and members of Sahaj Marg are brainwashed, controlled and manipulated.. what is your opinion about this..

Kasturiji:- I have also heard that mission has been removed from every country only in Denmark it is there and from all other countries it has been removed. What you feel bad about Sahaj Marg, governments and other agencies have also objected to same things..

Me:- hmm.. I have heard that Chariji has cancelled all functions of Shri Ram Chandra Mission this year.. are you aware of this..

Kasturji:- now he has said that only one function will be celebrated this year, which is his birthday celebration of 24th july.. that's all..

Me:- ok, I am greatful to you for your information..

Kasturiji:- I will stop here now, I have to go..

Me:- thanks a lot for your time.

Kasrutji:- thank you.


Note by 4d-Don: That is the complete translation of this conversation between Shashwat and Sister Kasturi Chaturvedi, Feb. 20, 2009.


Alexis Said: (Alexis has a blog called Le Projet Sahaj Marg, See his comments in French there)

* There is no link between the Sahaj Marg and SRCM of Babuji on one side and the teachings of Lalaji and his successors on the other. This confirms the previous comments of her (Kasturi) collaborator, Pandit Ji, who claimed on his blog on 18 February 2009 that Lalaji was: Sant Mat: "(...) Sri Ram Chandra's mission is babuji's mission and started by babuji not by lalaji, lalaji had sant mat which is still there in fatehgarh (...)." -

Comments posted on 18 February 2009. They also seem to forget the origin of Sufi NaqshMumRa, the current Ramashram Satsang and the followers of Lalaji brother ...

* As highlighted by Elodie, she (Kasturi) now claims that "Chariji is not the Master of the Mission, but its manager. There is only one Master and that is Babuji". Except she was saying something different in 1995:

"(...) Simply because Sri Babu Ji Maharaj prepared him to be his spiritual representative and the President of Sri Ram Chandra Mission of Shahjahanpur. In truth, Sri Babu Maharaj Ji m has not only dictated to me the statement of appointment of Sri Chari Ji as President, but he also divulged the divine beauty with which He has prepared him (...) "-

Speech of 1995, French version (translation by Denise Mincet).


This is one more contradiction in a story that does not lack for "contradictions".


A little quick and hot analysis...

Under very restrained exteriors, Kasturi complains about everything that Chari is doing today: weddings, big ashrams, calling for donations, publications of "Whispers", etc..


Very guarded, since she refuses to speak ill of the supporters, and of Chari himself, or she "laughs it off" rather than responds. She therefore refers constantly to what Babuji said, to show how the SRCM of Chari does not follow his example. But it is up to us to draw conclusions because she knows better than to do it ...


A priori, this seems to justify that she deals only with spirituality and makes no judgment of others. A style of speech that should appeal to the disappointed "charisma" of Chari, as Elodie appears to succumb!

Yet his version of events is changing over time, it is true that 14 years have passed since her speech of 1995, 26 years since the death of Babuji and even 35 years from the alleged letter of appointment of Chari ...

But it is Chari's evolution that impels her to amend her version of the story!


She only deals with spirituality, as her collaborators who have created a blog in her name, and who refuse to answer questions of polemics. But they do not spit on the "disappointed charis-ma" that come to them today, quite the contrary. The blog has obviously been created to attract the disappointed, and so much the better if they are numerous. Hence the criticism ofl Kasturi who is increasingly more bitter, but polite. Hence their pleasure that we, the bloggers have advertised their blog.


Attention, their speech is surfing on a wave whose slopes are soapy. They must not forget that it is largely the numbers that caused the drifting of the SRCM of Chari. This could also happen to them if they have too much success ...


21 comments:

Anonymous said...

“....
Kasturiji:- I have written the truth about these things in my book, because I know, that these things are going to be very harmful for the mission in future, this will not convey the correct message, you tell me one thing, did Chariji hear the name of “brighter world” during Babuji’s time, or before him or after him?
Me:- (pause) you are correct.
Kasturiji:-(where) ever did he hear this name?
Me:- you are correct, this all started since 2005 onwards
Kasturiji:- even Chariji, he also use to do worship before, many big names use to visit him, did he ever hear this name “brighter world” (laughs..) .....”

“......SHE [note: Kasturi Chaturvedi] IS AT BHUMA ACROSS THE BRIGHTER WORLD WHERE ALL GREAT SAGES ARE.....”
From: http://kasturibhenji.blogspot.com/2006/11/kastur-bhenji.html

Anonymous said...

Good one...

You make the same point as the "bloggers". If you can't believe and trust the "saints", then find the ONE (GOD) on your own... Turn off the co-dependency, the emotional attachment of "belonging to a gang", the "loser" need to be "less than", so as to be "dominated" and then saved, but only if you do the "right thing" by the "IDOL". If not: YOU'RE DOOMED or worse!! FOR ETERNITY... That is their GOD who (personal pronoun) is usually MALE (gender) and almost never FEMALE...

The age of RELIGION is over... From now on, as in the "suicide clause" from Jeremiah, of the Judeo-Christian Bible, the covenant between the ONE and MAN is now written on his heart and no one can teach or save anyone but him/herself...

Can I quote GOD? lol

GOD is SPEAKING HERE (through Jeremiah, of course): ;-))

"I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people."

"And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

Applications for "The Saviour job" are now closed... It is time to act like ADULTS and take responsibility for one's SALVATION or PERDITION.

Don...

Anonymous said...

I’d like to add the following:
About ANGER:
Some years back I met Kasturi Chaturvedi in Lucknow. As I am a totally normal person I didn’t feel anything special. I agreed - and I still agree - with her on many issues regarding SRCM. It was during this talk that she called Parthasarathi Rajagopalachari the spiritual representative of Babuji, too, She offered a sitting. When I refused to have a sitting it seemed to me she was quite angry.
“Kasturiji:- it is like this, you were asked to manage the mission, and a person who is suppose to manage a spiritual system, he must have a balanced state, SUCH A PERSON IS NEVER ANGRY.....

About the way Kasturi talks:
I went to Lucknow, because I had met Kasturi I think one or two years earlier in the South. What she had told me there about spirituality in general (during a personal meeting) was new and quite helpful to me. - I must say I was totally unexperienced in that field and I had never been a seeker or something like this.- The reason I felt the need to meet her again was because she had made a subtle remark, very subtle, the year before. - We must not speak negative about a person. A subtle, quite unclear remark is psychologically of much more effect than saying something negative. At least, it was for me like that.
In my opinion, this is the way she acts.
While expecting to hear something tremendous on my arrival I left without having learned anything bad.
I find a similar behaviour of her now, more obvious and therefore psychologically less effectful.
“Kasturiji:- I know them very well, that why I never meet them.
Me:- what is your opinion about these people..
Kasturiji:- that’s why I don’t meet them
Me: ok
Kasturiji:- instead of saying anything, when you find that spirituality is far far away, its better not to visit that place, and then say anything about it.
Me:- ok.. does it means that they are not very good people?
Kasturiji:- this is the reason as why I don’t visit them.”
and
“Kasturiji: ......... I have not written his name .... I have not taken any name, but I have answered everything, so that people can come to know the truth...”
Truly never speaking ill of somebody, for my opinion, is a totally different matter.

About the SRCMs:
“Kasturiji....HE is head of OUR mission currently..”
Kasturiji:- .....these were the very reasons as why I LEFT THAT GROUP..”

About time:
[regarding “messages from Lalaji”]
“Kasturiji: (laughs..) was he present at that TIME?
Me:- (laugh..) I could not understand this.. even today!! How come Lalaji gave this order?
Kasturiji:- you tell me.. he says this is an order.. was he present at that time???
Me:- how can he be present at that time, he was probably not even born at that time..(laughs)....”
That is told by a person who thinks in terms like this:
“Kasturiji: -like there is lord Krishna and lord Rama, there are many sages and saints who worshiped him to come down to earth, ...........Lalaji got Babuji on earth, when there is birth, there is order for that, Lalaji by his prayers, tried to get Babuji on earth,...........Lalaji just prayed for him to come down on Earth....”
[In this context I am reminded of “So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?” Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” John 8,57]

About the capture of Shajahanpur ashram:
When I met Kasturi she told me that she didn’t agree that the Shajahanpur ashram wasn’ t taken by Chari immediately after Babuji’s death. Now she says:
“Kasturiji:- they simply occupied it..as if they declared a war and forcefully captured many ashrams like in Vijawada, and some more.. almost all ashrams created during Babuji’s time...“
That’s, at least, not true for the first ashram, which is in Tirupathi. But she says “many” and mentions only “Vijawada, and some more”.. As I know, there aren’ t more ashrams in Babuji’s time.

About Masters:
“Kasturiji:. ..Buddha left someone, Vivekananda left someone....
.... No, chariji cannot be THE [!]master, understand it like this, like Ramkrishna mission, have you ever heard that there is any other master other then Ramkrishna? Did Vivekanada become master of RK Mission? ...”
Well, is Vivekananda, in her opinion, a master or is he not?

And - for me the most strange statement of this interview:
[In answer to the question: “Actually I have seen the documents submitted in supreme court of India, I have seen both the nomination letters, one of 1983, which is in favour of Umesh Chandra and that of Chariji which was that of 1974.. and I got the signature verified by an expert on both the documents…]
“Kasturiji:- I have not seen anything, I have never seen any nomination letter for anyone!! Babuji taught me meditation and service to abhyaisis and that's all I know, I don’t know anything else..”
Is there something of the question missing?

And the last:
From:http://kasturibhenji.blogspot.com/2006/11/kastur-bhenji.html:
“......whenever a spiritually sensitive person will come to lucknow he or she will fine the lightness in the atmosphere as soon as he or she comes to charbagh(lucknow railway station) WHAT ELSE CAN A SPIRITUAL PERSON EXPECT other then the divine atmosphere in the materialized World
[note: Does that mean: What we expect, we get?]
basant is celebrated by bhenji and what a way to celebrate 3 days of complete drowning in divine and evey body is invited for this spiritual bhandara
this year basant is on 30,31 JAN 09 i request if possible come to Lucknow and see yourself the divine flowing all over
lucknow is well connected by flights and trains........”
Posted by pandit ji at 12:12 AM
This reminds me of a situation when my presence in a place was misused for advertisement and attracting people. I was told by some (Telugu-speaking) students that a well-known gentleman who had organized and announced a satsang with Kasturi mentioned in his (public!) speech that I especially had come from abroad to meet Kasturi. - I even had not heard her name before that day.

I am astonished that people hope to find full honesty, perfection and I don’t know what here or there. Everybody has (more or less) little idiosyncrasies. - Seeking perfection, in my opinion, is a hopeless task.

Speaking only about the human level of existence, I don’t believe that Kasturi acts in the appropriate way.

P. S. Please, give the source of the quotations "I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." "And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."
Thank you!

Anonymous said...

Hi Anonymous...

Your comments are interesting. Could you sign your comments please... Any "ID" will do... just to distinguish your comments from all the other: "anonymous"... Also, your relationship with SRCM and This SPIRITUAL MESS in general terms.

The quote from the Judeo Christian Bible is from Jeremiah. The God of the Jews "Yahweh" or "Jehovah" later became the "GOD the Father" of the Christian later.

Taken (ad hoc-no intention to proselytize) from this site with a explanation by CHAIM, a Presbyterean (Reformed Christian) Ministry to the Jews. Most reformed Christians see themselves as the new "chosen people", and see the Bible (old and new testaments) as referring to them.

http://www.chaim.org/jeremiah.htm

"Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says the LORD. But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each man teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, says the LORD; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." (Jeremiah chapter 31 verses 31-34)

Don...

Anonymous said...

Dear Shashwat and my brothers and sisters,

I completely agree with you that you are perturbed by what has happended with you since years. please bury all those things.Please see light within you.

Pujya Shri Babuji maharaj is Light of universe and he is within us guiding us all the time. we need to see Him within us. Hide yourselves and expose HIM.

when we start remembering HIM in true sense what remains is master and Master Alone.Let's start taking steps in that Direction.

Thank you
Ashok
9866977750

Anonymous said...

Dear Ashok...

We see the light of the ULTIMATE within ourselves, that is why we are speaking out as true "spirits" with honour and humility, so as to give a "heads-up" to other "gullible" seekers who would be led astray by such "the light is in a MAN" claims of the RELIGIOUS idolaters...

The ULTIMATE is not called "babuji" or "jesus", or Muhommed, Bhudda, etc... IT IS ONE... and we adhere to all MASTERS when we find the LIGHT inside ourselves and at every point in space, including in the hearts of the "evil-doers", the egotists, the megalomaniacs, who think that their way is the only way...

We are all a part of the LIGHT of the WOLRD and no one among us is more important or "special" or "chosen" than the other... Just as in NATURE, the CEDAR tree is not more "special" than the FIR tree...

Within us all is not BABUJI but a spark of the ULTIMATE, the ONE... A person can guide another if they want to be guided but if the ULTIMATE is inside us, why do we need a GUIDE...

WE are already within the LIGHT... We all are... and we are all ONE...even those who feel more SPECIAL or CHOSEN... That is just EGO speaking... See us all as "INSIDE THE LIGHT" and you will be a SPIRIT ... See us all as "outside" the light, needing to be saved by you or your "MASTER", and you will be RELIGIOUS and IDOLATROUS...

May you find the LOVE that allows you to LOVE those you see as needing what they already have...

We are not "perturbed" but trying to "save others the perturbation of SRCM" and other "idol worshipers", the SHEEP that need a RAM to follow... ;-))

4d-don...

Anonymous said...

I dont know anyting about the Mastre Babuji maharaj or Lalahi Maharaj. But i am associated with srcm under the presidentship of Chariji and i do the practice of sahaj marg as evolved by Babuji Maharaj.

One thing is sure that the present administration by the SRCM under preident of Chari may not be the liking of Babuji Maharaj. The administration set up and the persons appointed mostly are ineligible to be there for spirutual organisation, this much i am sure.

4d-Don said...

Hi Anonymous...

Your comments are not clear...

You say you don't know anything about Babuji or Lalaji, and you claim to follow the SRCM as presided by Chari. And apparently, this "administration" is not to the liking of Babuji Maharaj, the FOUNDER of the system you are practicing.

Is that right so far??

The claims by many, are that Babuji did not want Chari as the President and Chari went to California (via Santosh Khanjee) and re-registered the SRCM society in the USA in 1997.

Is that accepted by you? Is that the SPIRITUALITY that you follow?

Who is "ineligble to be there for spiritual reasons"? Chari? Or Babuji's son "Umesh" who apparently died "poisonned" (just like Babuji, the founder of SRCM and Sahaj Marg "allegedly" or apparently), and now the SRCM that was founded by Babuji is now Presided by his grandson, Navneet Kumar Saxena, according to the SRCM (Shajahanpur, 1945).

How are you sure that "they" "are ineligible to be there" as you don't seem to know them or Babuji, or Lalaji, and who is "THEY"?.

Does the spiritual lineage not have to "pass from one to the other" as with the SUFI's? Lalaji had a SUFI Master, and his lineage continued (and his successor was not Babuji) Can anyone just appoint themselves "Master" from a "dream", just like Babuji, and like Chari is said to have done? Who made Chari a "Master"? Of Which LINEAGE? Lalaji's (and the SUFI's from Islam) or Babuji and his SRCM (Shahjahanpur - 1945)? Chari's organization is SRCM (California - 1997) Babuji's family, plus the only saint in Sahaj Marg (according to Babuji) Sister Kasturi, and most of the old preceptors, say: NO!! Chari just stole with cunning, manipulation, the courts, and bullying and violence, the SRCM which is now called: SRCM (California - 1997) and is not the SRCM, headquartered in Shahjahanpur, and registered in 1945 by Babuj, the founder...

The Public Relations material and the web sites are telling a lie and are attempting to change, manipulate and distort the "HISTORY"...

Read the Origins of Sahaj Marg and the SRCM at: The Sahaj Marg Project http://thesahajmargproject.blogspot.com/
or The History of Sahaj Marg: http://historyofsrcm.blogspot.com/

And read the "Autobiography of Ram Chandra" with comments here: http://autobiographyoframchandra.blogspot.com/ and see that the history that we are exposing is accurate...

Or remain in the dark, being manipulated, and pretend to be spiritual while the others in SRCM are not, according to you!! ...

Could you clarify your statement so we can understand clearly what you mean?

Spirituality should clear and control the MIND just like the MIND should control the "emontions", and make things "SIMPLE" with simple words that are understandable by all, as the ONE (What Chari calls GOD and calls IT "HIM" a male??) is SIMPLE ... the ONE simply is not a MALE!! That is the ONE TRUTH!! Those who call GOD by the pronoun: "HIM" are not telling you the TRUTH!!

SRCM has become just another false religion serving a false GOD, not the "ONE" as Vivekananda and Plato called the "first CAUSE" or the CREATIVE... (ONE is not a PERSON, but a SPIRIT ... and a SPIRIT has no gender or is ALL GENDERS and is not only a "HIM"!!) A partial truth is also a LIE, and does not stand in our justice system ... It should not stand in our SPIRITUAL systems also...

4d-don ...

Anonymous said...

Dear Brother, because you have instantly responded to my words, thanks to you. What I said about Babuji maharaj and Lalaji Maharaj that i dont know about them was that i never seen them in my life in that sense, as I see Chariji. Otherwise the literature available with Charijis SRCM reflects their calibre. I cant comment anything on them including Chariji becaue aftre all the energy given by Babuji Maharaj to each and every preceptor is being spread by Chari somewhat ok as many souls get awakned for their spiritual journey.
My pointing out was only the adminstation set up by the Chariji SRCM not the other SRCM because i cant comment anything since i am not aware of it and i also did not say anything about them.

It is good that i have huge informatin from you, also i will continue to have it so i belivie.

As I am intreested in spirituality, Sahaj Marg(whatever group) is unique system using the technique of transmission, as you said only Babuji Maharaj is the Master and rest all are his representative, Babuji Maharaj made software in spirituality of Sahaj Marg, including the works of Master till the time of Mhalapralaya, and the representative coming in futre are only the dummy personalities to stay in the chair.

If Babuji has not included any programme in his software, no one can exist in the Sahaj Marg in any format, let it be any format and or any administration, it al must be with the Babujis Maharajis plans. There is no doubt about it. What i meant about the adminstration set up by Chariji SRC, was that they can do still better and spread to many souls to get benefits.

Otherwise no one comment about Chariji also for his work, after all i got benifit through him that i should have gratititude.

Anyway, as you are spiritual brother you have right to point out me.


And one more thing, whatever Babuji Maharaj said, it is all said in the Savism of Ancient Indian spirituality, the unique feature is only the technique of transmission.

Continnue please

4d-Don said...

Hi anonymous...(Please use an id or a number so I can distinguish you from the other "anonymous"... it does not have to be your real name)


I see now what you mean... Thank you for the clarification...

By their fruit, one can recognize a tree! If a tree bears bad fruit, one should not eat it, but leave it as a lesson for others who will learn from the fruit of that tree. The lesson is don't eat a fruit that is "poisonous" or toxic.

If a belief system divides, then those who adhere to that system will also divide. They will spread division as their accepted "belief system" has.

Religions with their concept of "unique" paths have divided Mankind for millenia... Is it not time to UNITE and not think that ours is THE "UNIQUE" path? Mankind is at the stage of becoming a "GLOBAL" civilization or as "Michio Kaku, a physicist calls it: CIVILIZATION l (ONE) ... We must UNITE so as to deal with the GLOBAL problems (pollution, poverty, division and wars caused by RELIGIONS and other "isms", etc..) and those coming to us from the cosmos of which we are not yet aware, as we are not even looking OUT. (ie Meteors, Gamma bursts, etc...)...

Transmission is not UNIQUE to Sahaj Marg as all religions use "transmission" of SPIRIT in one form or other. And all "masses" (radiating bodies such as "suns" and even matter (blackbody radiation) have a "transmission" of energy coming from them. YOU TRANSMIT energy at 98.6 degrees of heat, and a colour, and a sound, etc...

To transmit mind, we use words, music, rhythm etc... To transmit SPIRIT, we can only transmit what we are or what we have ... and we do that by "living"...not by rituals. And in the SPIRIT we are all ONE ... so the ONE is transmitting through all of us all the time... NO NEED FOR A PROXY anymore...just a realization that we are ONE!!

Religions usually transmit back to the masses the energy of the masses and they call it and "experience" and they are right. There a now a science of sociology, and we know that people in a group act differently than in isolation. Movie producers and sports promoters play and profiteer on that "energy of the masses"...

Unfortunately, so do religions...

If the LIGHT transmits SPIRIT, then we should all get out in the SUN more often so as to become SPIRITUAL!! If the the light of intellect transmits more SPIRIT then we should read more. If imagining a LIGHT in our heart gives a spiritual experience, then it is manufactured by the MIND (the GROUPTHINK or egregore), not by the SPIRIT, as the SPIRIT does not manufacture anything but simply IS... the ONE does not DO ... the ONE IS ...
In the SPIRIT, we are human "beings" not humans doing!

Can a dead person transmit more energy than a Living person? Can a dead tree transmit more energy than a living tree?
The bodies of carbon are simply re-transmitting the energy of the SUN (energy) ... If SPIRIT exists of itself, then it does not transmit but it EMITS or RADIATES in all directions (scalar) and does not transmit to only one person or a group (vector) ... but to ALL, much as the sun does with light and heat, and more (ie UV, Cosmic, gamma rays, etc...

I am UNIQUE... YOU are UNIQUE... BABUJI is UNIQUE ... CHARI is UNIQUE, the CEDAR TREE is UNIQUE...

But the cedar tree does not have to rely on the maple tree for it's UNIQUE-ness... it gets it directly from the ONE (Creator) or the ALL (Creation).

Just my opinion as a SPIRIT and a child of ONE!! And mine is not a UNIQUE idea! ;-))

B-4, B-3, B-2
Before be TWO, be ONE!!

4d-Don

Anonymous said...

From "Krish"
I accept your first request to make identity to distinguish from others, yes, you may call me as"Krish". Thanks.

I am happy that i have a spiritual brother to answer my doubts or interact in the field of spirituality.

Now, we can avoid quoting the religions, since we have evolved from religion not to look back it.We are supposed to travel beyong until we get closer to the source with fine purification of our souls.

Let us also not talk much about the present SRCMs, we will remember Babuji Maharaj to send the divine transmission to many souls suriving on the earth.

I heartfully thank for this blog to discuss on these matters which is absent in the Charijis SRCM.

bY "Krish"

4d-Don said...

thanks Krish...

Let us go ONE further...

Let us remember what Babuji "sounded" with his words (and made visible with the light that is his written word and his physical presence), and for that matter, what Jesus of Nazareth, Buddha, Vivekananda, Grey Eagle, and many other great sages too numerous to name, have uttered with and from their lips.

The true Ultimate MASTER is the ONE (CREATOR)... The role and duty of any and all MASTER is to send one to the ONE that is INSIDE ...

That way, we (you and I...Don and Krish) will not need "words" to communicate but we will be able to "divine" (trace, find) one another's part of the ONE spirit, by following the emanations of our ESSENCE.

In the MIND, if there is a point of interest or danger that I see or experience, I will let you know. And if you experience any concerns on your path (SRCM), you can let me and others know at this blog ...

I have done the same for other "isms" including for the followers of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity (my religion of birth), if I become aware of some "fundamental flaw" (theology, philosophy, morality, ethics, etc..), that is usually made visible, as a lack of "tolerance" or respect for the other "isms" including: "critic-ism" (the blogs! lol ;-)) ). One and one's religion has to develop a "sense of humour" in one's belief that one and one's path is "unique" and the "only".

We (you and I) are now free to roam this REALITY in the knowledge that our freedom does not demand that we stand in each other's shadow, and that is our blessing. I will not fail in my duty to give all a "head's up" if I am "chosen" to see or hear any information that could be of value or of interest to you on your path ... (SRCM) . I will not stop the flow of INFORMATION at the entity and/or at the MIND called "DON"! I will remain ONE in the SPIRIT, even with SRCM (California - 1997) and Chari ... But I will speak my Point of View (POV) as I do with friends and family.

May you be in Peace in the knowledge that this dwelling of SPIRIT called Don this time around, is and has always been in contact with Babuji since our first "contact" inside. I asked his "sign" when I started exposing SRCM (California - 1997), and I was re-assured that the path is necessary so as all will face the truth of the other, then to "cleanse" one's part in it, and then finally to "re-conciliate" or to BE "at one" or to "atone" for the divisions for which we are responsible. The divisions not only in the SRCM MISSION, but in RELIGIONS and "society" in general ... and in our own personal divisions in and through the illusion of the UNIQUE-ness of our perceived blessings, OUR PATH!! All the UNIQUE paths make up the ONE PATH. Or as Jiddu Krishnamurti might say: It is the Pathless Path. The illusion or the Paradox has to stop ... it is an illusuory perception and it is of the MIND, not of the SPIRIT. Paradox is the end of MIND.

We are seperate or "divided" in MIND ... WE are ONE in SPIRIT ...

Blessings to you and yours on your "earthly" journey ... Stay safe ... and UNITED into ONE!!

4d-don

Anonymous said...

From
Krish

Dear brother,

I am so happy that we have continuous communication. As long as the souls in this earth get benefit by any source of SRCM, one should be happy. As you rightly said, the spirit is important for unity, as long we work on mind, the spirit wont work. One should be cautious about it.

By all the ways, Chariji nurtured by Babuji works in his SRCM, but I am afraid that whether the person nominated by Chairji has grown to the highest level to transmit the spirit. Many problems will araise once Chariji leaves his physical life from this earth in his SRCM if it is not handled by appropriate persons.

By Krish

Anonymous said...

From Krish

DEAR BROTHER

AS LONG AS THE SOULS LIVING IN THIS EARTH BENEFIT FROM ANY SOURCE OF SRCM, ONE SHOULD BE HAPPY. BECAUSE THE DIVIN SPIRIT IS TRANSMITTED FOR UNITY.

CHARIJI DOING THE WORK SINCE HE WAS NURTURED BY BABUJI MAHARAJ HIMSELF PERSONALLY, SO THERE IS NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER IN SRCM. BUT THE REAL QUESTION IS THAT WHETHER THE PERSON NOMINATED BY CHARIJI WILL HE ABLE TO HANDLE THE SRCM OF CHARIJI, UNLESS IT IS HELD BY APPROPRIATE PERSONS IN FUTURE.

BY KRISH

4d-Don said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
4d-Don said...

Hi Krish

The question is always: Do people get benefit from any and all "religions", spiritual groups and/or any belief system or simply an "illusion"? Many religions offer a "candy-coated" poison that leads its followers to divisions such as feelings of "Uniqueness", that change to superiority, and eventually leads to WAR as the critics and the followers of other religions are made out to be the "enemies of GOD" or of Spirituality, much as what Chari has done with the "bloggers"!! (see his book: "He! The Hookah, and I")

Having been involve with the Holy Roman Catholic Church for quite some time (until I left when I learned (from sources outside the church) what was being done "behind the scene" that confirmed what I saw and felt first-hand), I can safely say that in a "pyramidal" organization such as religions, (and SRCM) those at the base of the Pyramid never know what is going on at the top of the pyramid. In the case of Catholicism, many priests were abusing the altar boys and the "orphans" in the back of the church, as the "GOOD PEOPLE" were in front praying and thinking they were being led to the ONE GOD by these "abusers" and Profiteers.

The path to hell is paved with good intentions ... So stay alert! Don't be one of the ones who are fooled and "dulled" by the "benefits" and the rituals, and the mystique of the Pomp and Ceremony! Movie stars and "leaders" are built the same way as "Masters" and "icons" (idols).

You will never know in SRCM or any other PYRAMIDAL structure, what is being done in your name, and what you are supporting with your time and money, by those who are in the "inner circle" of POWER ... or at the "vertices" of the pyramidal structure. The information flow in a pyramidal structure, is "blocked", and one has to rely on those "outside the pyramid" for information about the inside of the PYRAMIDAL Power Structure.

The CIRCLE that is used by the female religions which revere the "goddess", Nature or Mother Earth (paganism, etc...) is also a closed structure with an inside and an outside, but all the points on the circle have equal power. The only other point in the circle structure, is at the center of the circle where the "aboriginal" religions would place a "FIRE"...

So both the Male (pyramid) and the Female (circle) religions have an "in" and an "out" or an "us" and a "them". That is a DIVISION caused by the structure itself. Anytime their is POWER and a built-in division in the structure, it will attract the "ruthless" and the "POWER HUNGRY" or the power addicts.

That is why I now think that the ideal organizational structure for SPIRITUALITY and/or Spiritual Groups is a SPIRAL with an open access to the inside, and a way out of the spiral that is always accessible to ALL ...

In the spiral, the flow of energy can not be stopped by those inside the structure and those outside the group also benefit ... so it is more ONE or more UNITED even with those who are not part of the GROUP ...

Peace be with you! And with your Spirit!

If Spirituality has a value, it should to "hone" the MIND and make it "sharp". The Mind can then control the emotions with its tools: Intellect and Logic.

The SPIRIT, being our "rarified energy" connection to ONE, should be as the Charioteer, who controls the horses, or the Senses ... of the MIND, the Emotions, the Material.

In religion or on the PATH: A wise man is not to be fooled by "pretty words" that any salesman (preacher) can utter, or experiences of bliss that many drugs can give, and/or promises of rewards that are to be fulfilled on the "other side" and that any fool or profiteer can invent.

There is a reason why Religion is called the "OPIATES of the MASSES"!! It plays on an "addiction" of the many to sensations! (feeling good, bliss, belonging (to a group), etc..) But REALITY which is what we should seek is not all PLEASANT... and the REALITY of life also includes disease and illusion of death... such is the reality of LIFE!!

4d-don

Anonymous said...

"KRISH"
Dear Brother,
You have rightly said about pyramid and spiral system in simple words. I could grasp it, thanks.

Anonymous said...

From Krish
None of SRCMs have got administrative similarity in laying the spirituality in the world, but they are all doing the work, it is to be arppreiciated. One should not look very deep into the organisational structure which is illusionary and the subject matter to be looked in, though all SRCMs functioning now in the world having differents of opinions, but they do their work in spiritual sense, that is to be highly appreciated.

Anonymous said...

fROM kRISH

i THINK WE CAN DISCUSS SOMETHING FROM SPIRITUALITY, I EXPECT VALUABLE GUIDANCE FROM YOU.

4d-Don said...

Hi Krish...

There is a reason we don't follow "murderers" and other people of "questionable character" on the spiritual path to the ONE. It is because we believe that the Spiritual path should MAKE ONE the intellect and specially the "emotional" world. When those who claim to be "SPIRITUAL" are many, those who really reach ONE-ness are FEW, and only the words and lessons of these few should be adhered to if one does not want to go over the emotional or intellectual "cliff" that the MANY are heading for.

While I respect your attempt to "not judge", it reminds me of a statement attributed to Jesus of Nazareth (he did not leave any writings behind, so these are "allegedly" from him by his "supposed" disciples, who were also not "enlightened spiritually".)

13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

or this one:

“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. “You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? “So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. “A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. “So then, you will know them by their fruits.

Respect everyone but follow only those who "SHOW" morality and ethics and not those who speak with "silver tongues" who bring "turmoil", dissent, division, anger, war, etc...

You can find a better way than that by yourself... THE ONE IS AVAILABLE TO ALL DIRECTLY.... as IT is EVERYWHERE. The ONE does not ask you to OBEY false statements and to copy the immoral and un-ethical behaviour of so-called "MASTERS"...


May you find a "true" spiritual path" where the "inner circle" are also "SPIRITUAL" and are not into the Material, the emotions, or simply into the "intellectual" practice of PREACHING and uttering WORDS, but not BEING in the spirit, hence not UNITING the world but dividing it.

4d-don

4d-Don said...

If you want to "discuss spirituality" let us do it in a FORUM where others can see it and join in... On this blog, that has been posted quite a while ago, we are talking to one another and no one will read us...

Let us go to the discussion board at: (one has to join) ...

http://www.freedom2think.org/forum/index.php

or:

http://www.orkut.com/Main#Community.aspx?cmm=24873318

We are discussing at ORKUT now and the "freedom2think" is a new site...we could be the first discussion there...


If you prefer to continue here, let us make it in an article that is more recent so all make read what we say, and join in...

The more recent article is: http://4d-don.blogspot.com/2009/07/why-does-sahaj-marg-use-egregores.html


4d-don