Chari's Views on the West and Occidentals

Thank you to Alexis for a copy of this interview of Chari in France, 01/06/2008
You will surely notice the "love" and "uniting" qualities of this self-appointed Master of Spirituality of SRCM(California), registered in 1997 in San Luis Obispo, California, USA. and it's "trade marked" commercial product: SAHAJ MARG.
(translation by author, using Google Translate)



PROVISIONAL translation of informal exchanges
between Chariji and an abhyasi of SRCM (California)
On 01/06/2008 at Guy Joris (France)

ON MUSIC...

Abhyasi: Master does one play the violin without emotion?

Chari: Stay in constant remembrance, think of the Master. Simply do so, regardless of notes and effects. The music in Europe is too strict, it lacks freedom, is too concerned with effects, it is not music, but comedy.
Freedom, freedom, one can not applaud when one wants to applaud, everything is calculated.

A: What happens to my project of mixing styles of music?

C: Do not mix, let the heart play. We should not write music... that is the first mistake.

A: And if one takes oriental instruments to play Western music?

C: You will ruin the oriental music. With our flutists, only the skeleton is there. The skeleton, and on top of that, God creates people, Jacky, this girl, this woman. So the skeleton must be there but what do you have? A piece of opera, Schuman, and the conductor is important, but what does he in fact do?

A: Not much

C: Nothing at all. We did not need him at all. And what's more, he earns more money than everyone. That's a comedy. The same music composed by the same man, with two different conductors, one sells more than the other, I do not know. Guy is a good musician. I asked him what was the difference. He said, but Chariji, he is such a good conductor. Wonderful! Wonderful! My opinion is personal.

A: But you say that to conduct a satsangh, we need a leader, a Conductor.

C: Do you not see the difference? That's why I do not listen to classical music. Before I loved it, but it is always the same thing. I can listen to a raga 50 times and it is always different. A raga has a base but that's all, no conductor. That's why jazz is not very popular you see, because with jazz we forget the people who watch, then why not the same thing with opera.

A: Tell me about a music that elevates the soul.

C: Some Indian music, or for the Germans, some pieces by Mozart. The music must come from the soul. There is the so-called Sufi music, one listens to it and falls asleep. It is not known what it is, the soul, and we do not know what a music that comes from the soul is.

That it is Sufi means nothing. I can scream and my dog and other dogs think that it's music. So music is not even a topic that we can talk about with Westerners (occidentals). I express very strong opinions when I speak with abhyasis. And even your dances you know, they are not natural.

A: One puts rules and mathematics everywhere.

C: Yes everywhere, and too much. And not enough soul, even in meditation. Last night I was reflecting on the difficulties of Westerners and the facilities of the Orientals. I've come to a conclusion based on my reflections, in the Western world you have masters in the arts, crafts, engineering, etc.. all external things. You have masters of everything, electricity, plumbing, music, kitchen. He is a cordon bleu. You do not know the importance of things in relation to each other. Is the food so important that a great chef is paid 20,000 euros per month, it is nonsense. Besides a scientist will only be paid 10,000 euros per month. Does this show the real importance of each thing? Schumacher, No. 1, what is his income, millions of dollars per year. He is like a dog running in a circle behind a bitch that he never gets to touch.

And the tennis players, they earn 10, 15, 20 million, why? Of course tennis is important and is good for the body but nothing else. In the Outside World, there is no relationship between what is important and this is not really, and the more you mix what is really important and what is apparently important, you pay a tennis player 30 million and a professor of science 3000 dollars. And a good cook because she can make a sauce, bismillah, really what a sauce, chutney in India, one should pay for chutney, not for the stove. So you see, everything is reversed in Europe and in the West. You have too many masters. In the East we are not concerned with the outside world, there are enough stupid people to do that for us. One goes inside, one is gone inside our whole life, since hundreds of years. It is a very difficult world. Here one can become an engineer, a banker if one has the education, but may be he does not know the difference between 10 euros and 1 euro because he uses a computer for that. In one billion, how many zeroes are there? 6. But here we will calculate 1 equals 3 power 10 power 4...oh no is that 6 or 9? So in the East one has very few masters. The inner world is not tangible, you can not feel it. You have too many masters on too many topics, including tennis, football. In the East there is only one subject, but it is a matter not only very difficult to understand but it is also infinite. Here you build a radio and you do what with it?... you listen, and that's it. In the inner world there is no end, the master continues and continues. In the Western spirit, you usually start something and it ends, the beginning and the end, Monday to Friday, then holidays, in spirituality there is no holiday, it is always and every day. There is no end. Hence the book by Babuji, Towards Infinity.

Chari's SRCM (California) MISSION in EUROPE

A: But do you think the mission is increasing in Europe

C: Yes it is growing because people who are able to understand are more numerous. In the material world, it is easy. But also in the material world when one goes to the smallest, it is infinite, there are molecules and atoms, the nucleus, the particles. To find them, we need larger and more larger machines. So, to reach the least one needs the more. In the interior, to reach the more, we need less. What does one need, one must eliminate all our exterior attention on girls, food, God, and reduce everything to arrive to one attention, interior, and that's it. So you see, there are too many masters of the outside world, everything is tangible, may be touched, felt. In the spiritual world, it is always less and less, and less. It is not known how much progress is being made, where it begins and where it ends.

A: It's hard to follow you because one must live in this world and earn money

C: No no it's not difficult for you, it's difficult for me. You come, you meditate and you say Chari is useless, since 20 years he comes and I have not changed. . But this is not my fault... is it my fault? It is your fault because you are wasting all your energy to make music. I will not play perhaps as well as you, but in three days I can play something. What can you do in meditation? You're only capable of mastering the outside world, and you do not know what to do with your inner world. You do not want to obey the teacher, you say that you are free, France is the country of freedom, equality, fraternity. The freedom to do that which is bad, not to be disciplined, marrying many times to have a lot of sentimental adventures. And what equality, you killed a queen because she was born like that, you murdered her, and you make an annual celebration on the 14th of July. The pride of the french, this is your freedom, equality, fraternity. And poor Marie Antoinette, killed. It's your idea of equality and fraternity. And brotherhood exists when there is wine to drink and you are drunk. You can have this kind freedom equality and fraternity. In spirituality there is only one equality, the soul. It is always the same and it is immortal, eternal, and every soul is equal to another. But you want the physical equality. The freedom of the soul is eternal. My soul is trapped in my body and the body has 5 senses, it wants kissing, touching, to do so many things, eat, drink. And the freedom of the french tells them they can drink, Chari. Ok drink, exercise your freedom and you'll come back over and over until you understand that this is not true freedom. They are your desires that make you come back, it is not God.

There was a body buried in a garden in Malaysia, and every Saturday we put in the tomb 6 bottles of beer in case the ghost came and would have liked to drink. So many attachments. It is a true story. And if they did not do this, there were problems at home, windows banging, things falling over. What to do, there are so many attachments that even without a body to benefit from our desires. Too many desires pass from the body into the soul, or rather in the ghost that remains in the corner looking for pizza or something else. And even if the body is dead, the ghost continues to want the pizza. And it affects all the pizzerias that double-close their doors.

Finally a priest comes, and if the priest is capable it works. Babuji said choose a master who knows his work and when you find him, attach yourself to him because you're the idiot who risks to let everything fall, it is not the teacher who will let you down.

ON the WEST (France)

A: So if I'm really focused, nothing in my life will affect me?

C: Nothing. This is the difference between East and West. Here there are too many masters. A person took a 3 day course to learn raiki she comes to see me to try to heal me. She wants me cured with a course of three days. You have courses that last a few days or weeks. When I was a boy, I wanted to do Yoga. I was not allowed to enter because all the girls were in skintights and it was unaffordable. But I instinctively knew that I had to do something in relation to yoga. To become really succeed at meditation, forget your Western ideas on skills, degrees, masters. You will not be a master carpenter, but a teacher who was also a carpenter before. But you are going to make me believe that a master carpenter is also a master in meditation? You can guarantee everything but you can not guarantee the brain of a brilliant man. We can not guarantee the spirituality of a man. When you go to Paris, there are so many streets and avenues named after Napoleon's generals. You glorify the war. Where are the old philosophers, I do not know if they exist, or they appoint a sports stadium (in their honour) somewhere.

So spirituality should be getting rid of everything. That is what I had to say to you today, all these thoughts that I have. Why are the East and the West so different? The difference is in the heart, not in the brain. The same soul, the same heart. One does need to have a Eastern or a Western heart, but a loving heart. Why does the East and the West not join?

THE EAST vs THE WEST

A: Samskaras?

C: No it's like saying why is he black or why is he white, samskaras... it is not it. It is the quality of the heart. We make our own universe which is a world of fantasy, and there we live and there we are happy. There is a beautiful film about a woman who takes her two children to school, and everybody dies. The husband goes to hell to bring back his family. And he finds his wife living in a beautiful and happy house at the bottom of hell and it has great difficulty in making her leave again. That's love. Babuji said we have to learn so much about the quality of life but at some moment we must get to the bottom of hell to be able to emerge. If a man climbs a tree and can not climb back down, he can jump. But if there is a precipice of three hundred meters and someone falls, it will be very difficult to go look for him. So going to hell requires a master. And a total love for the other. In this society we do believe in the outcome of production, a pen, a car, a performance, appearance, comfort, the best car for the best boss, and we forget the environment. One goes outward to meet one's pride, our desires, our attraction to material goods, and still more and more. In spirituality it is increasingly less and less. It seems simple that is why it is so difficult.

Enough for today. Thank you for coming with this weather, this rain. In my time with my master at Shahjahanpur, it was raining forever. I slept in the water without feeling uncomfortable or unfortunate, and I slept well because I thought of my master. Here one must have thick mattresses, and one of your most beautiful stories is that of the princess and the pea. With a pea under her 7 mattress she could not sleep. What will happen when they sleep with a husband who taps her with his knees and elbows in his sleep, and bad breath. I do not know how European women sleep with their husbands because most have bad breath. I'm afraid when people come and talk to me, I turn my head, I tell the truth.

The attachment is in the head, love is in the heart. I like this tree but I'm not going to cut it and bring it to Madras. My knowledge of the material world tells me that if it is a living thing, I must not take it. I can not take but dead things. I can take a stick, but not a dog or a songbird, it does not sing in a cage. We must behave as if we were dead to this world. The world belongs to God, not to us. If you remember that, you will not harm nature. Guy has a gardener for 300 euros per month. to take care of his garden. But this world can take care of itself. I read a book by a German philosopher. And on the first page there are 4 lines, the name of the highest mountain (he names a place), all men can take in a suitcae of a square kilometre, the suitcase is placed on top of the mountain, and made to grow (is planted), and the valley grass turns green forever. Nature can take care of itself. Nature takes care of us. In the vedas, there are poems, may all things prosper, grass, birds, flowers, jungle, and this is the first verse that has been on the ecology of nature, and that applies to our life. We suffer because our rivers and oceans are polluted, the air is polluted, by whom? Westerners.

A: China and India are contributing a lot.

C: Not only the smoke. The largest air pollutant are the sprays, aerosols. And every year there are resolutions to stop them, but always stop them in a few years, they always push back the dates, now they say they will stop in 2010 but in 2009 they will say 2050. The sole purpose is to make the money they give to politicians, politicians give the voters. We don't want to kill more whales but Japan continues and sends the entire world walking. Why does America not fire on the boats of the whaling fishermen? They go well into Afghanistan, Iraq, only because they want oil. Their policy is only based on their interest. Why is Europe united with it?

A: To be stronger

C: To be stronger militarily and politically. That is why many countries lack confidence. This is not for freedom or equality, it is for personal interest. People continue to hate. Denmark has kept its currency, England too. It is with such people, one likes the lips of the girl one will kiss, and the other, he loves her nose. In films you see a perfect girl, and boys want a girl like that. In reality, legs belong to another girl and it is a (special effects) production. Every part of the girl is from a different girl. This is not at all reality. We live a life filled with physical material wealth, beautiful lamps, nice curtains, mattresses, and the surrounding... nothing, no sleep, one takes more and more pills. Maybe in 20 years a businessman will buy this house and destroy the garden. The trees took 350 years to grow and everything can be cut to 35 minutes.

And nobody will say that these trees were beautiful because they will sell everything for apartments, and earn 30 million euros. How important are these trees. The West must give up this life and this material attachments, because you can lead a comfortable life but the attachment must leave.

THE Chari SOLUTION

A: How to get there?

C: It's very easy. First stop asking how things are called. What is it? A pancake. Oh a pancake,very impressive. What is this pizza? Mushrooms. Snails, Frogs. One starts loving the name and not the thing. A man tastes the wine and decides the price. From Beaujolais, 60 euros a bottle, rum 27 euros a bottle, is always alcohol. From beaujolais of 1967, ahhhhhhhhhhhhh 3000 euros the bottle. Someone won in an auction one of the older wines for $ 2 million. I do not know if they drank it or if they have kept for 2000 years or for resale. The things of value are never used. Recently they sold a diamond at auction at Christies to the highest price ever paid for a diamond. One day I wanted to go as Vivekananda on a trek on foot for a month by myself. I told it to Babuji, I want to take 5 rupees and leave for one month, he mocked me... take the train. Babuji cut this desire. I never left, I was afraid.

A: And the commitment vis-à-vis the people?

C: Babuji said there was no love between people. There is only dependence, friendship, commitment. Nothing else. Saying that one loves his wife is a lie. If you loved your wives there would be no divorces. You can not teach people to love. We can teach them how to make love but it should be natural. One day I had a long discussion with a married couple from a religion I do not want to name, and the man asked me what my teacher said that is not already in the book of his religion. I asked what his book talked about. He said everything about life, including how to make love. I said sir, you need a prophet for that. He blushed. The philosophy is in the books, not in life. There are so many philosophers who have become insane. In the East it is not possible that a philosopher becomes insane. Because a Master can not commit suicide or become insane.

HOMOSEXUALITY AND AIDS (Compassion?, Love?, acceptance? Tolerance?))

A: When will you go to Africa?

C: Why do you want me to go to Africa. I work according to the orders I receive from my master If he goes to France I come here. If he says why you spend three days eating well with Guy, I'm finished.

I was with Babuji in Rome, at the Vatican and the former pope was there. An old man very sick, very tired, he blessed the people in three languages, and finally he said something that made many people angry, he said he will offer a special prayer for people who have AIDS.

I was angry, I said why AIDS? Why not diabetes or legs broken, and not AIDS which is a disease that should not be accepted nor tolerated in any way. Many abhyasis told me that I have no heart when I say that. I said too bad I have no heart because if I had a heart I could not work. At the beginning of my spiritual life, I gave my heart to my master. And now I can only work with my head.

If he says no sitting I give no sitting, I must obey the orders, you know. When I told Babuji what was in the pope's prayer he was also surprised. The religious leaders can pray for a specific group. In India our prayer is "may all be happy and healthy everywhere." One prays not for whites, African, Chinese… this is not like that. May all be happy people everywhere.

Thank you brothers and sisters