Wednesday, May 28, 2008
Comments from the OTHER SIDE!
Blogs are a "dictatorship"...Chari does not give me "equal time"... I don't have to give anyone equal time. I chose what I put out by my own criteria. I attempt to put Religion and so-called Spiritual Groups on trial by researching and compiling their WORDS and their ACTIONS as reported by either themselves and/or other Sources including but not limited to the mainstream MEDIA and then Showing them here. I am focussing on Sahaj Marg on this blog, for personal reasons, but you will also find some articles about other religions that I have come in contact with.
I include this (long) comment in an article so as to "SHOW" the spirituality that is the hallmark of Sahaj Marg and the Shri Ram Chandra Mission. Let the readers judge for themselves if they want to become part of any of these GANGS who are divided over and over again among themselves, in the name of the ONE (what they call GOD). They all claim that RELIGIONS DIVIDES and Spirituality UNITES, but refuse to be called "RELIGIONS" even though they DIVIDE and even though many families of their followers are also divided when one joins this group.
When the Rule of Law is finally applied to all equally, JUSTICE is shown as BLIND.
(one direction-From the State to the PEOPLE)
When Information is finally available to and from all, KNOWLEDGE is also BLIND. (two directions-From the Media Barons (the elite) to the People, and from the PEOPLE to the PEOPLE)
Welcome to the AGE OF THE INFONAUT. We are finally the MEDIA! OUR VOICE IS READ or HEARD! (notice the readership and the comments)
The article from the Comments:
Tuesday, May 27, 2008
Spiritual Energy Generator
Sahaj Marg claims to be the EASY PATH, according to Babuji's autobiography. If we want EASY, here is an EASIER path... and about as NATURAL as dependency on a Preceptor who is really just a "drug dealer" one has to follow around so as to get a "FIX". It is obvious that MORALITY is not being transmitted in Sahaj Marg...Maybe this technology will be PURER!! And less CORRUPT ;-))
Cri-cri, a Phd in Psychology and phycho linguist, is telling Peter about a piece of technology called "holosync" or a "spiritual energy generator".
Peter!
I found the device which you spoke of yesterday without even knowing it existed and just after thinking about it, while writing to you, by chance, while leafing through a new-age magazine .
No doubt, and to answer all your questions, we find what we seek :-)
Instead of modifying your heart rate through complicated breathing exercises to achieve a change in one's conditions, this technology acts directly on the cortical rhythm. Why get complicated when it can be done simply?
It uses sound, one has but to listen. A brainwash, perhaps, but you and I have known some other methods that are much more toxic!
So, the Americans have done it: Now, Ipod = guru, one puts one's guru in one's pocket, he is always with oneself, it is not expensive, and when we are put off by it, we simply set it to "off".
You can get a CD demo on their website http://www.centerpointe.com/
I will test it with an EEG to check.
Cricri
Later Cri-cri replies to 4d-don...
Hi Don!
it's been a few days I have been testing it on myself and it works.
The effect of (as you say) "soothing Prozac for dogs" is felt in less than 5 minutes :-)
They said it would! ...
Here are some more technical info:
[For example, frequencies of 500 Hz and 510 Hz produce a binaural beat frequency of 10 Hz Monitoring of the brain's electricity (EEG) shows that the brain produces 10 Hz increased activity with equal frequency and amplitude of the wave form in both hemispheres.
Phased sine waves at discernible sound frequencies, when blended to create 'beat' frequencies within the ranges of electrical brain waves found at the various stages of human sleep, will create a frequency following response (FFR) within the EEG pattern of the individual listening to such audio waveforms. The FFR in turn evokes physiological and mental states in direct relationship to the original stimulus.
With the availability of this means, it becomes possible to develop and hold the subject into any of the various stages of sleep (or trance), from light through relaxation Alpha, Theta, Delta, into and in REM (dreaming). "His conclusion was that" Binaural beat-frequency stimulation creates a sustaining FFR that is synchronous in both magnitude and frequency between the brain hemispheres.]
The reverse side of the coin is that we are entering directly into the era of subliminal manipulation of the masses, if we had any doubts.
And if what I have seen is true, there are other types of waves than sound waves that are already used to manage the Masses.
Some could be Non-human.
Cricri
4d-don Replied...
Hi Cri-cri and all...
Cri-cri… excuse my english...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_beats
Here’s the "transmission" theory that needs some research and “hard data” to back it up…so as to "de-mystify" the "mystical" experience" that we are apparently "hard-wired" for. Religions call it the "GOD EXPERIENCE" but that is usurping another concept as they usurped the "4th dimension of space" for their "heaven" or "Brighter World" which is not "OUT THERE" but is really "in there" if that theory proves accurate...lol
The same phenomenon as “binaural” beats could be happening with all “out of sync” waves, including light waves, and thought waves (if not at more than 30 hz or 30 cycles per second for the effect to occur, or at less that 1000-1500 hz to be heard…in your research they say 10 hz, so below hearing range at 500 to 510 hz)
That is interesting that some research has been done on this as the “Transmission” of Sahaj Marg or of the SUFIs, the prayer of most religions, or SIMPLE human emotions, if transmitted at close proximity as with the “sitting”, could created that same phenomenon as “two focuses of “psycho-magnetic” or “thought” waves are sent to one heart (the abhyasi) at the same time. One is the preceptor’s as the sender of one wave, and the other is from the abhyasi who as the sender of one wave and the receiver of the other wave, thus has the (psycho-magnetic?) beat created “inside”, beyong hearing range, but still “soothing”, pleasurable, and could have some “physiological” phonomena attached to that hyper-Binaural beating such as heart rate, or more. The brain works (or produces) in the area of 5-8 hz.
The USA military is allegedly working on bouncing those frequencies off the “ionosphere” and aiming it at specific cities and “monitoring” the police, hospitals, etc…to see the results…This is apparently done at the HAARP project in Alaska… http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/
The probability of the any waves created or processed by humans being slightly “out of synch” is almost a certainty as not many humans can hold one sound or one colour or one thought, for any length of time and we transit from one thought, one colour, one sound to the other randomly unless we focus the “mind” to producing just one wave and become proficient through practice and/or “talent” to hold only one wave. We are so to speak “in the wind” of change or “dans le vent”…most of the time.
The same phenomenon probably happens with “lovers, family, friends etc…” and we call it “love” as it ‘attracts” most at a “subliminal” level, and we don’t rationalize the feeling… It is nothing to do with MORALITY as some fall in love with “criminals, and killers” even those who are “in jail” at the time. Can the Psychopath transmit at a great distance…Is it a MUTATION?
This would have sociological implications also, as if it is the product of TWO waves, then the stronger the wave, as at a GROUP meditation, Church ritual, Concert, or other collective event, the feeling of Energy would be “magnifiec” and have a more “hynotic” or ‘Brain washing” potential or what some call “addiction” to a sensation. It could be used to “control” crowds, as it is already a known that people act differently in a crowd, than by themselves!. The GURU is BIG BROTHER! Oh no! Not the BROTHERS and SISTERS again! This time, we can CONTROL or USE it. We can “SHUT” it off, just like TV or develop filters, and other protective “gadgets”…. It could be the new economy… lol
The scale of Peter’s could be used or amended with actual ratios of “wave-lengths” for light, sound, and thoughts as they relate to specific emotions, going from the negative (survival) “red –end of the spectrum of our aura” to the “positive” or intellectual blue end of the spectrum of our aura. Barbary Ann Brennan, an ex-NASA physicist, has done some work on that in her “Hands of Light” book and teaching manual.
Others have tied together light and sound wave ratios for a more “technical” theory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_recording
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binaural_beats22 mai 2008 15:17
Cri-cri...
Religions (the cults) sell us OPIATES... (some "feel good", "fuzzy feeling") such as the sun, the wind, the rain...the stars, etc.,I belongs to us and has belonged to us since FOREVER...
4d-don...22 mai 2008 15:22
Monday, May 26, 2008
The Enemies of Spirituality?
Enemies of Spirituality?
Here is another excerpt from "He, the Hookah and I" (The Master and the abhyasi 11) which concerns me, and which affects us directly:
"The common people (mortals) , they are people who come, judge, and judge again and consider starting blogs on the computer, which is now a curse because everybody has a computer. And these blogs can influence the mind of an abhyasi more than the truth of the practice (…) Why do we ignore the proof that we produce in ourselves in terms of a certain level of relationship with the Guru, and prefer the claims coming from disgruntled people who have left the Mission, who dropped out, who have renounced, who are the enemies of spirituality. "
Am I an "enemy of spirituality"?
The title of this blog - it must be remembered is what? -- "Long live the Sahaj Marg… get rid of the excesses of the Mission".
I have abandoned nothing, I never relinquished. I have not abandoned the practice and I have not renounced spirituality. I took my distances from the Mission, I returned to the fundamentals of Sahaj Marg. I have renounced idolatry, I have chosen the path of spirituality.
Enemy of spirituality?
No, a thousand times no. I am opposed to what was holding back the development of spirituality within the Mission.
I have renounced idolatry.
I abandoned the Mission.
I chose spirituality.
I encourage all do as I have done. Take your distance from your idol. So then, you'll have taken the first step towards a true spirituality.
Elodie
4d-don's Comments:
Such lack of love and compassion is shown by the MASTER of HUMANITY that is Chari...He does not only attack other religions at their schools, (see Value Based Spiritual Education (VBSE)), (or read the whole VBSE curriculum or lesson 10 (the attacks on religion here) he now attacks his own "BROTHERS AND SISTERS" branding them as the "ENEMIES OF SPIRITUALITY" in a Book published by his MISSION... That can be considered "HATE LITERATURE" and/or "intellectual terrorism" and should be banned in most democratic countries... Make your governments aware of this MATERIAL in the name of SPIRITUALITY or in the name of REPRESENTING the ONE (what SRCM (Chennai) teach children and call GOD, the male).
NOW we, the INFONAUTS are the ENEMY because we use "HIS WORDS" and the writings of HIS MISSION to expose his, and his Mission's, deviancy. Shoot the messenger, don't fix the problem is his solution. The material excess of the MISSION is visible to all, just like the excesses of " corrupt religions" (Chari's words). Now we have the SPIRITUAL deviancy of Sahaj Marg, attacking the MEMBERS who leave the Mission because of the "drifting" from the FOUNDER's teachings by Chari, as "enemies", rather than blessing them and wishing them well... by that criteria, we are all LOFTIER or more Saintly than CHARI, the Businessman come "self appointed" GURU who is now in Court with the Family of the FOUNDER, Babuji. Some more enemies no doubt?
What's next? In the Italian "mafia" the "don" (Godfather) does not order people "dealt with", he simply says that he has a "problem", and all the "foot-soldiers", try to please him by getting rid of his PROBLEM... What' s next for SRCM? A "fatois" (death sentence) system as in ISLAM? Would that then be called a "MODIFIED" fatois system? SRCM claims that it is a "modified" Raja Yoga, the eithtfold path, starting at rung SEVEN!!!
Amazing and some believe that!!
PS... Chari has un-wittingly, from his own words, written his "obituary"...
HERE LIES CHARI, The Enemy of Spirituality!
(The pun on "lies" is intentional. The "miroring" back to the "originator" is a lesson from my dad...and from Babuji... Never point an accusing finger, at another person, Chari!! It is not SPIRITUALITY and not what Babuji taught you, and not what you should teach in Babuji's name, and/or show by your example...these are your WORDS...you live with them. That (your) lesson, of "accusing others", will create "monsters", not saints!.)
His "brothers and sisters" who left him and his Mission, and who wanted to reveal to all the reason why they left, he called them: the "enemies of Sprituality") ... (Ref. "He, the Hookah and I")
By the laws of reflection, that brand will not stick to most of us, infonauts, who don't have much "material" attached to us including a large "FOOTPRINT" or a "religious" legacy and/or ego to defend. Chari on the other hand, has to defend his POSITION and hence his "EGO" by attacking other "RELIGIONS" and now, his "brothers and sisters" who leave him and his EGO for a journey into a TRUER SPIRITUALITY, they claim. Shame! It could be the weight of his own words, that makes his journey "Venus-bound", according to his "tale" about Babuji.
Monday, May 19, 2008
Targeting Youth At SRCM (Chennai)
Alexis Said...
CREST now focuses on youth. It offers them a session from 17 to 22 of June. Here is what we found on SRCM India Newsletter May 2008. Take a look at the topics! It's interesting…
CREST - Sadhana Program for Youth
CREST is happy to announce a new trainning program designed only for abhyasis in the age group of 20 - 30 years. The 'Sadhana Program for Youth' will be a 6 day residential program in CREST. The schedule of this program will be similar to that of the Sadhana Program, with facilitated discussions on topics specific to the Youth.
Some of the topics that will be dealt with via facilitated discussions are 'The Spirit of Volunteering', 'Marriage by Sahaj Marg Padhdhati', 'Relationships at Workplace and at Home', 'Financial Planning' and 'Family Planning / Importance of having a Family'.
After the post by Don on (alleged) "suicide of this ardent abhyasi" who was newlywed, we still wonder what are the important messages that Sahaj Marg wants to deliver to its youth…
Sunday, May 18, 2008
Lies from He, the Hookah and I (My Master 2)
Lies
From "He, the Hookah and I" (My Master 2)
Once, Babuji Maharaj arrived in Fatehgarh, somewhat later, around 21h, and in winter, 21h is like midnight, you know, and the house was closed, there was no light. He slept on a stone slab, outside - granite. He had nothing to cover himself, he just had one of these cheap pull-overs. I told him: "Babuji, how did you do? He said: "I was in constant remembrance. Nothing affected me. "
And in the morning, Lalaji opened the door, saw his disciple on the slab of stone which was the first step and said:" Ram Chandra, why did you not knock? " I also said:" Yes, Babuji. Why did you not you knock?" He said: "We must not disturb the guru because he does so much, and the poor man when he sits down, should it be that you bother him, just because you're here? " You see, now people come to complain to me: " We are stopped at the door, your door is always closed, your safety blah-blah-blah, " so many such things. He slept on a stone slab! Then he said he did not eat but once a day when he was with Lalaji, and he ate only a chapatti. I told him: "Was it necessary to have a special diet during your sadhana?" He says: "No, it was not that. You see, I knew that my Master was in a difficult financial situation, so I did not want to eat too. I do not eat anything but that one chapatti per day. And I do not eat a second time."
Babuji met Lalaji 3 to 4 times altogether. To read this text, it looks like he has eaten at his place repeatedly. Read it, imagining that he met him at most 3 or 4 times, certainly separated by long periods. The "efforts" of Babuji become ridiculous, the text loses all credibility.
The question now becomes: Who arranged the story? Who lied?
Is it Babuji or is it Chariji?
There is enough to doubt in the so-called messages from the Brighter World of "Whispers", the interconnections between Lalaji and Babuji and more generally in all citations of Babuji by Chariji.
They re-arrange today the old stories for their handover to the masses, in the "flavour of the month", even to the point of distorting them or even invent them.
Elodie
Friday, May 09, 2008
Chari Cancels his European Tour
Alexis Said:
On May 3, Chari finally cancelled the bulk of his tour in Europe. The only part that remained was the inauguration of the ashram of Milan, a stay in Vrads and his return via Dubai. Yesterday May 7, he also cancelled Milan ...
Does he know what he really wants? Will the abhyasis not eventually get really tired?
The General Assembly of the SRCM France should still take place on May 28 with Chari, but at Vrads (castle) ! Second year in a row it takes place abroad (from Chennai). Tiruppur (India) in 2007, Vrads (Denmark) in 2008.
Clearly, we have to be rich to participate in the life of the association ...
PS... At the last minute, Chari went to Europe (Italy and France) and met with a few "preceptors", on the QT... (Shhhhh! He is in hiding! lol)
Open Letter to Navneet Kumar Saxena
OPEN LETTER TO NAVNEET KUMAR SAXENA
Dear Navneet,
fine, that you are healthy and “in station” again. So, maybe, we can ask you some questions (or repeat some unanswered questions).
1. Y O U R D E C I S I O N IN ANSWER TO THE JUDGEMENT CONCERNING CIVIL APPEAL NO. 6619 OF 2000 (Supreme Court) should be given to the public. The Court decided that the decision of case of 2007 has to be done latest in 6 months. Will you take any legal activities of a so-called interim protection?
If you do, of what type will they be?
[The judgement of the Supreme Court for the case of the year 2000 says
“.....So far as ORIGINAL SUIT NO. 7359 OF 1989 is concerned, the findings recorded in the judgment therein could have constituted res judicata but the fact remains that the appellate court permitted the WITHDRAWAL OF THE SUIT and once the suit has been permitted to be WITHDRAWN all the proceedings taken therein including the judgment passed by the trial court have been wiped out. A judgment given in a suit which has been permitted to be withdrawn with the liberty of filing a fresh suit on the same cause of action CANNOT CONSTITUTE RES JUDICATE IN A SUBSEQUENT SUIT FILED PURSUANT to such permission of the court.
.... It would be appropriate to direct that THE PENDING SUIT [02/2007 HIGH COURT] shall be decided within a period of six months...
...It is open to the parties to move for such INTERIM PROTECTION ....”]
2. NAVNEET, WHAT ARE YOUR INTENTIONS?
For example, for what did you need comments from other blogs? Why did you ask on http://4d-don.blogspot.com/ for posting comments from there to your blog? (What is this policy of shifting comments from one blog to another blog? Are people asked if they agree with the shift? If not, is this honest? Didn’t you learn during study, not to make any quotations without giving the sourse of the quotation?
[From: http://4d-don.blogspot.com on March 25, 2007 10:19:00 PDT PM/“Navneet said:”enter comments into new Blog Address as below http://srcmshahjahanpur.blogspot.com/ I have lost comments from 124 onwards if people who have posted can re-post your welcome.”
On http://srcmshahjahanpur.blogspot.com/Posted by Navneet at 10:03 PM 1 comments/ comment 1: 4d-Don said... “Hi Navneet........ “( now comments of many bloggers are encluded in this comment 1)]. Is there any SPIRITUAL reason in this?
3.Why are you looking for “supporters” and thinking about the “ (support) of a good n u m b e r of people”?
Did you unterstand the comment “....I GUESS SERIOUS SPIRITUAL SEEKERS SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM S R C M ... OF SHAJAHANPUR ...... SO PLZ STOP ALL THIS!” correctly?
[From: http://tmtindia.blogspot.com/2007/01/justice-should-be-for-all-not-only-for.html/
N a v n e e t /sandeep said.., an inactive abhayase of SRCMtm (not SRCM?)]
4. Do YOU know about A H I M S A or KNOW ALL PEOPLE AS YOUR BROTHERS AND TREAT THEM AS SUCH (Or less spiritual: prohibition on vigilantism)?
And what happened to a person who was beaten up in the past by your people, W H E R E I S H E N O W ?
[N a v n e e t K u m a r: “....After about 3 to 4 months Sh. Jahangirdhar also died on the spot at his residence soon after he was given pills in name of medicine by an individual. the individual was beaten in closed room and asked who was behind it he said I can't name him otherwise he will kill me, T O O . Now I am not saying who is behind it and what was the benefit he could have got...”
A B: “Mr. Navneet Kumar, I am able to imagine what happened in this “closed room”. Can you explain if this is the practical application of your spiritual theory in life?
N a v n e e t K u m a r: “I just narrated the incident which took place and by the person who was involved in questioning the gentleman who was the tool to Sh. Jahangirdar ji’s death. Moreover, just to bring to your notice that Sh. Jehangirdar ji did tell my father 3-4 months before his death that he knows that he will also die, like Babuji died and that was the reason that he gave the last letter of Babuji to my father during his visit to Shahjahanpur.”]
NOW WE ARE JUST QUESTIONING THE GENTLEMAN WHO IS INVOLVED IN THIS LEGAL BATTLE AS LONG AS HE IS IN STATION NOW.
5. For what was BABUJI’S NEED TO TAKE CARE OF HIS TRANSMISSION when (like others, too, do) he believed that he will never die?
["I have descended on this earth as a living person. I will go back as a l i v i n g p e r s o n and the question of my dying does not arise." -- Babuji From: http://www. srcm s h a h j a h a n p u r .org.in/our_master.html
and
“As far as transmission is concerned, Babuji has taken care of the same before leaving his
physical Body.”
From: http://tmtindia.blogspot.com/2007/01/justice-should-be-for-all-not-only-for.html/ N a v n e e t]
6. Do you wish to draw people’s attention to the fact, that the quotation "...I have never claimed to be a MASTER..it is unfortunate that some people..are addressing me by that term....So in fact, the purpose of my talk is to request all of you to stop addressing me as Master” originated in the time before 1988 (it was first published in 1988), which means about 20 years back?
7. Would you agree, if your grandfather Ram Chandra of Shajahanpur was the - ONLY - GURU OF SRCM, then SRCM wasn‘t created in honor of Ram Chandra of Fategarh and there will be no sucessor in future, too?
[N a v n e e t K u m a r: “I still abide by the everlasting fact that Babuji is the only and the last Guru of Shri Ram Chandra Mission.” ....“Let me clear that we are against the divisions and we still say that Babuji is the oonly GURU and shall remain till the end of this world.”
“The basic concept is that Babuji Maharaj is and shall continue to remain t h e o n l y G u r u till mahapralay ( doom's day ).” --- Lalaji Maharaj in a dream of Babuji
From: http://www.srcm s h a h j ah a n p u r .org.in/our_master.html/“Successors & Spiritual Repräsentatives]
8. Do you know, that many (“very normal” people, not so- called special personalities) know the exact time when they will die, that others know that they will be killed? - My question is, HOW LIVED your grandfather his life knowing that there will be an attempt on his life and how did he deal with the question of death?
[A B: “Out of his explanations it seems to me stated, too, that Babuji (the special personality) seemed to be unable to find out W H O tried to make an attempt on his life.”
N a v n e e t K u m a r: Babuji did know that the attempt was being made on his life. His last letter clearly states so too. [The question again is: WHO?] He also predicted his long hospitalization, which also was true as we know that Babuji was in hospital from September soon after coming back from Paris to April 19th 1983 (The day of his Mahasamadhi. Moreover, as pointed by A old abhyasi about my Aunty stating B a b u j i ’s r e q u e s t o f F I R before leaving to Paris also clearly states that Babuji knew what the future had store for him.]
You allow me to tell the story of a well-known man in this context,
the story of the Sufi master Mansoor Hillaj.
It is said that Mansoor al Hillaj’s way to be killed was the worst ever done up to then. First his legs were cut off, then his hands were cut. He was alive. Then his tongue was cut, then his eyes were taken out. He was still alive. He was cut in pieces.
What crime had he done?
He had said, “An’al Haq.” (“I am the Truth. I am God.”)
The Seers of the Upanishads declare, “Aham Brahmasmi.” (“I am the Brahma, the Supreme Self.”)
The people couldn’t tolerante somebody saying this.
It is said when they cut Mansoor in peaces he looked to the sky and prayed to God and said, “You cannot deceive me! I can see you in everybody present here.
You are trying to deceive me? You have come as a the murderer?
I tell you in whatever form you come, I will recognize you, because I have recognized you in myself.”
And I’d like to direct your attention to the following text: “My Master had been seriously ill in the early part of the year 1974, and had to be finally hospitalised in Lucknow, where he lay in deep coma for almost one month. In view of his advanced age - he being 75 years old then - there were deep, though unexpressed, fears that the end may not be long. It was much of a miracle to most of us when he regained consciousness, and then went on to regain health.
It was my privilege to have been with him for part of the time he was hospitalised. I also went to Shahjahanpur after he was discharged from the hospital in Lucknow, and stayed with him for many days till he was relatively in better health, after his month of long ordeal. It was then that he revealed to me that he had chosen me to be his spiritual represantive, to eventually succeed him as the President of the Mission, whenever this became necessary. Those were, for me, very moving days, driving me to tears from moment to moment. Those were the blessed days when his gentle and deeply abiding love flowed upon me, over me, like a spring drizzle under blazing sunshine. Those were also the days of the most personal intimacy between us, when there seemed to be nothing at all between us, exept our two identities. It was as if he had removed all barriers between ourselves, and we were blissfully together in a oneness that would perhaps be difficult to experience later.
It was a time of the greatest happiness for me, and, rather surprisingly, the time of the greatest sorrow for me too, for it was then that I had to face the certain knowledge that one day my beloved would leave me to go into the brighter World. This knowledge almost broke my heart. He could of course divine it at a glance, and he would gently chide me for such thoughts, saying ‘I shall be with you for many more years. Do not worry about it now. Mrs . Davies told me that I shall live till 2006 or 2007, and others have told me the same thing. So don’t cry now. I shall be with you for a long time. One day we all shall have to go. But I repeat, it is very far off.’ Thus he would chide me and comfort me. But nevertheless, I could not bear to think of the time when he would not be with me, and thus began for me the hidden sorrow in my heart, which has never left me, and which, in 1983, became the stark and devastating reality that shall haunt me for the rest of my life. .....” P. Rajagopalachari, Bangalore, 8th March 1989
Nawneet Kumar, I see that you give second-hand informations to the auditory , which - generally - in most cases are unreliable, although there may be some truth in them. And I see, that we speek different languages (see 3.).
About the time of death of your grandfather you said
“My father had gone to America for his treatment, after attending the paris function. He came to know of Babuji’s illness and that he had been taken to hospital. So he cut short his visit returned back, and t h e n r e m a i n e d w i t h B a b u j i t i l l h e w a s i n t h e h o s p i t a l ....”
[First of all: Your father could afford to go for to U. S. for medical Treatment, this in the year 1983. I know Indians (professors, physicians, I don’t speak about poor people) who - in 2008 - say they can’t afford to go to a Western country. And I remember having read somewhere that the father of the same person, Babuji, told, that he couldn’t afford to drink milk, this in the days when the first visitors came to his home. (Somewhere I read that his trips to the West were paid by Western (Danish?) abhyasis.) I am surprised about what you tell here about about a medical treatment of your father. (But this isn’t the most important aspect of the discussion here.] The question is: WHERE was your father when Babuji DIED? WHO was with Babuji when he DIED?
- You never answered these questions.
I have nobody to ask for permission to write on this or any other blog. I can’t agree with the intentions behind SOME BLOGS and some comments. Moreover I don’t believe that the so-called discussions there serve the subject. For you, Navneet, I may say: You may think you serve the interests of your grandfather. It is my strong belief, that you don’t do.
Please, answer our questions before you go out of station again!
Thursday, May 08, 2008
Chari is Angry with the Supreme Court Judgement!
The verdict of the Supreme Court of Justice
New chapter in the "WAR" between the SRCM ® (of Chari) and the SRCM of Shahjahanpur (Babuji's Family led by Navneet)
Chari is angry!
On 29 April, the eve of Babuji's anniversary, the Supreme Court of India made its judgement in the case between Chariji and SRCM ® and Navneet Kumar Saxena (grandson of Babuji and son of Umesh Chandra Saxena) of the SRCM of Shahjahanpur.
Navneet released the judgement on Tell me Truth India on May 3, and Chari has cancelled most of his travels in Europe at the same date. We are told that it was not for health reasons. Should we see a causal link between the judgement and the cancellation of Chari's trip?
Navneet said that the consequences of this decision are contained in the last lines of item 4:
Now, it only means elected by implication and that to be read
in the line of Section3(A) and 4 proviso, it is pointed out that
Section 25(2) refers to election and the remedy to challenge.
If there is no remedy nobody is left remedyless. Alternatively,
it is submitted that assuming it is to be done by nomination,
P. Rajgopalachari could have been nominated, but it has been
annulled on 16.4.1982 as Umesh Chandra Saxena remains
nominated. It is pointed out that role as President of the Sahaj
Marg system is different. The application filed by Sh. Rajgopalachari
has to be tested as per clause 3(b), these were not challenged and
Rajgopalchari cannot have nay role to play. P.Rajgopalachari
could not have been nominated because he is not in the direct
line of succession. In any event, after passing of order dated
16.4.1982 he has no role to play. The working committee's
decision, resolution of the General Body all are of similar
effect. The stand is strongly opposed by the respondent to say
that nomination were not merely in respect of the Sahaj Marg
system system but it was in respect of President itself.
Then Navneet added this comment: "At last Chari, Uma Shankar Bajpai and 6 others have been chargesheeted for the criminal offence of tresspassing into the Ashram on 2nd June 2006. Their non-bailable warrants are being issued for the same from the lower court Three days back. "
Is Chari going to appeal it? In all cases, he seems very unhappy about this turn of judicial events. After having agreed to attend the inauguration of the ashram of Milan, and his passage to Vrads (castle) then his return via Dubai, it is announced on May 7 that he will not go to Milan neither! For health reasons this time.
A big thank you to 4d-Don for his first-hand information.
You can find the full judgement of the Supreme Court below, as it is published on
http://judis.nic.in/supremecourt/qrydisp.aspx?filename=31363)
4d-don's comments as brought up by Wormwood's comments: Notice items 5 and 6 of the JUDGEMENT attached.
Tuesday, May 06, 2008
Exchange on SRCM by Suraj and Cyril on ORKUT
This is an exchange between Suraj and Cyril Borg:
Suraj said:
Hello Friends!!!
it is true that few have misinterpreted the essence of babuji's system of meditation and altered it to suit their own selfish needs thus bringing a bad name to sri babuji maharaj and his system.
my effort here to to clear the cloud of doubts surrounding sri babuji maharaj's system of meditation and i sincerely pray that the 'TRUTH ALONE SHINES'
Cyril Borg said:
Hi Suraj and Welcome...
I appreciate your "clearing" up that point...
To blame the abuse of "SRCM or Sahaj Marg meditation" on Babuji is like blaming the abuse of Prayer on Christ.
I agree that, having meditated with Babuji and left when Chari and his father and his GANG bullied their way in and TOOK OVER the small (less than 200 followers), meditation group, there was no "perceptible" abuse of the system or any show of POWER, EGO, or un-spirituality in the system.
Having said that, I think that having since read much of his material (specially his journal) and seen how he created the MARG, It was bound to happen that others like CHARI would be attracted to the "lack of Authority"...The attempt to link himself to Lalaji rather than Vivekananda was a mistake as they (he) then had to try and hide the influence of Sufism in the SYSTEM...They instead started to call it Raja Yoga that started at #7 of the Eightfold PATH...That is a little silly and NAIVE...That removes all the items that make Raja Yoga a BALANCED SYSTEM. To remove Items #1-6 of RAJA YOGA is to remove the items that make that system free from ABUSE...such as the Yamas, and the tapas...
But it's not too late to return to the original path with a REFORMATION...as it happened in the ROMAN Catholic Church in the medieval days with Calvin, Luther etc..when the teachings of Christ became subordinate to the EGO and LUST for power of the CHURCH (and the Popes, and cardinals)... They (the "HOLY" Roman Catholic Church) even went to SPIRITUAL CAPITALISM which SRCM has gone to in just a few decades...(ie. spiritual gifts for MONEY or SERVICES (such as "obey and serve the MISSION)... that is one of the signs of corruption in the SRCM system now...
The other sign of corruption that I have been looking at is the THEOLOGICAL deviation from BAbuji's 16 rings and the "LIGHT of the DIVINE" not as the sun's light but as the glow of DAWN as in REALITY AT DAWN...(4d-Don says: Babuji used to say: "light" as opposed to "HEAVY" as an intellectual trick to feel the "light of dawn")
Other theological flaws such as: God is Male, Women can't be GURUS, and the "spiritualism that is WHISPERS FROM THE "BRIGHTER WORLD", are other examples...Notice "BRIGHTER"...exactly what Babuji did not teach. The glow of DAWN is not BRIGHTER than the SUN. That is the EGO that religions like Christianity displayed in their use of "the GLORY OF GOD, the GLORY of CHRIST when he comes back etc... LIGHT moves into GLORY or EGO really quickly and appears by itself as the DEVIL FROM BEHIND A BOULDER on the road of LIFE.....That was the gift of CHARI to the MARG...MATERIAL PROPERTY and Materialist thinking or "no thinking"...just POWER and MATERIAL POWER such as "castles, commercial property, nationalism, imperialism, etc...
The philosophical flaws of : Homosexuality is "un-natural" and "SRCM has no philosophy" would have shocked Babuji and Dr. Varadachari as they were both "philosophers" and did add a "thinkers'" perspective to the MARG....With Chari, that "thinking" became OBEY without thinking, like the "soldier who kills without thinking" or the boy who "kills his mother without a second thought" (see Lessons from Sahaj Marg), just like RELIGIONS... That is like "immorality" on the Path to the "GREAT MORALITY"....It is a FLAW and a corruption...
Flawed theology leads to flawed philosophy, which leads to flawed psychology, and to flawed individuals who create flawed institutions that promote flawed theology, and on, and on...in a vicious downward spiral of corruption...
The path to HELL is frought with "GOOD INTENTIONS"... I have sympathy for those who must extricate themselves from that corruption called SAHAJ MARG and hope that it is possible to still offer a GIFT to mankind that BABUJI wanted to bring...
Thank you for your comments...it did stimulate me to write this so I guess it is "adding energy" to the POOL of those who knew, and respected Babuji, and loved him as a 'fellow pilgrim' on the road of life (not "MY" master which is so "egotistical) and I still "COMMUNICATE" with him without the need of a (not elevated) FRENCH LADY MEDIUM or so as to write a FUND-RAISING book for CHARI...
I treat Babuji as I treat Shashwat, and you, ie... as a Fellow PILGRIM on the road of LIFE,
Bless you... That is all Babuji asked of us...not this MASTER-SLAVE that Chari read in his writings as USED to his EGOTISTICAL benefit...
You will notice that the electronic Written material is now "patented" to the CHARI GROUP as INDIVIDUALS...so that is another "COURT CASE" if they added some of Babuji's material in that. The ISRC went through that with Chari and gave up and hence LOST the ability to sell or use Babuji's books, even with Narayana's father's (Dr. Varadachari) introduction in one of them... That is like the Catholics trying to stop the protestants from using the BIBLE... It should be challenged and stopped...
http://4d-don.blogspot.com/2008/04/saha
Cyril Borg, as inspired by the ONE...
PS... When I sent you my "link" Orkut puts out a "code word" to allow the "http" file...The word was AMAT...in latin that translates to..."HE LOVES"...
Thank you Babuji...
Cyril Borg...as inspired by Babuji... ;-))
Monday, May 05, 2008
Chari Charged with "criminal offense" (says Navneet)
Dear Cyril
At last Chari, Uma Shankar Bajpai and 6 others have been charge sheeted for the criminal offence of tresspassing into the Ashram on 2nd June 2006. Their non-bailable warrants are being issued for the same from the lower court three days back.
Navneet
Saturday, May 03, 2008
JUDGEMENT on Chari/Umesh/Navneet Court Battle
Detailed Judgement of Supreme court is as under
CASE NO.:
Appeal (civil) 6619 of 2000
PETITIONER:
Shri Ram Chandra Mission & Anr
RESPONDENT:
P. Rajagopalachari & Ors
DATE OF JUDGMENT: 29/04/2008
BENCH:
Dr. ARIJIT PASAYAT & TARUN CHATTERJEE
JUDGMENT:
J U D G M E N T
REPORTABLE
CIVIL APPEAL NO. 6619 OF 2000
Dr. ARIJIT PASAYAT, J.
1. Challenge in this appeal is to the judgment of a Division
Bench of the Allahabad High Court. By a common judgment
several civil appeals were heard together and disposed of. A
common link in all these appeals was the decision of a
religious cum Philanthropic Society named Sh. Ram Chandra
Mission. It was established by a late Sh. Ram Chandra Ji
Maharajan and on his death disputes arose. The disputes
essentially relate to spiritual heirship to control the affairs of
the mission. Series of litigation was resulted and the four
special leaves before the High Court were summed up and by
the impugned order the High Court held that all the four
appeals were to be dismissed. Before the Division Bench
orders of learned Single Judge were challenged. The relief
sought for were categorized under five heads.
1. Grant of letters of administration in favour of
Sri U.C. Saxena in respect of the properties of
Sri Ram Chandra Mission through out India
and abroad.
2. Declaration and Sri Umesh Chandra Saxena
was the President of the Mission and the
second petitioner was the Secretary thereof.
3. An interim grant during pendency of the
application.
4. In the alternative appointment of a receiver in
respect of the entire estate of deceased Sr.
Ram Chandra Mission, and
5. Any other relief.
2. The special leaves were filed by Umesh Chandra Saxena
and others, Uma Shankar and Another, the present appellants
and another. Special leave by the Umesh Chandra Saxena and
Anr. Sri. P. Rajagopalichari were the respondent while in the
first special leave by Umesh Chandra Saxena and Anr. The
Administrative General, U.P. Allahabad and others were the
parties.
3. Background facts as highlighted by the appellant in this
appeal are as follows:
Sh. Ram Chandra Mission-Society was registered,
established and founded by Maharaj, Shri Ram Chandra Ji
Maharaj with its constitution, bye laws and Memorandum of
Society on 21.7.1995. Purportedly there was a covering letter
to the intimation dated 23.3.1974 alleged to have been
executed by the founder in favour of respondent P.
Rajagopalachari. This intimation according to the appellant
was the result of manipulation and fraud. The nomination
was declared him to be the president of society and clearly
stated that he shall work for the Mission and he is "President
of Sahaj Marga System". On 16.4.1982 nomination was
executed in favour of Shri Umesh Chandra Saxena as spiritual
representative in the direct line of succession and he was
nominated as the successor or President under Rules 3 and 4
of the registered constitution, bye laws of the society. The
nomination/declaration clearly stated that the previous
nomination if any made by the founder stand superseded and
cancelled. Founder - Shri Ram Chandraji Maharaj breathed
his last on 19.4.983. On 4.1.1984 a civil suit was filed by
three members of the Society in the Court of Civil Judge,
Shahjanpur who granted ex-parte injunction restraining P.
Rajgopalachari from acting as President. On 6.2.1984 and
7.2.1984 working Committee meeting was held at head
quarters and after perusal of booklet Sh. U.C. Saxena was
declared as a successor or President and also the spiritual
representation in the direct line of succession on the basis of
nomination of 16.4.1982. The claim of P. Rajgopalachari
based on the alleged nomination dated 23.3.1994 was treated
as rejected. On 8.2.1984 General Body was held at the head
quarter of the Society and the claim of Sh. Umesh Chandra
Saxena was approved and he was declared as spiritual
representative in the direct line of succession and also as the
successor or President of the society. Claim of P.
Rajgopalachari based on the alleged nomination was rejected.
On 15.2.1982 a circular was issued by Secretary Sh. S. A.
Sarnad informing all members regarding the declaration of Sh.
Umesh Chandra Saxena as Successor President and the
spiritual representative in the direct line of succession. An
amendment was carried out to the Societies Registration Act,
1860 on 30.4.1984. Section 3(A) was amended by the
substitution of sub section 4 of Section 3(A) and addition of a
proviso to Section 4(1). By virtue of Section 3(a)(4). List of the
members of the managing Committee Body elected was
required to be filed. Ex-parte injunction was granted on
4.1.1984 was confirmed on 9.4.1984. In appeal by respondent
No. 1, P. Rajgopalachari the High Court granted stay of
injunction. The High Court allowed the first appeal and set
aside the injunction order. SLP filed against the order of the
High Court was dismissed by this Court on 27.9.1985. The
suit was subsequently withdrawn on 10.7.1997 on giving of an
undertaking not to alignate and not to shift the head quarters.
On 23.1.1988 elections were held at the head quarters in
accordance with Section 3(A)(4) and Section 4 and the office
bearers were duly elected Sh. S.P. Srivastava as President and
Sh. B.D. Mahajan as Secretary respectively. On 24.4.1990 in
proceeding under Section 25 of the Act report of the Tehsildar
counter signed by the SDM as the prescribed authority under
Section 25 was passed recognizing the representation of
aforesaid two persons as the President and Secretary. On
29.7.1991 another report was given by the tehsildar and K.G.
in a proceeding under Section 25 recognising the same
position. The aforesaid reports were questioned on behalf of
respondent No. 1 before the prescribed authority by an
application called SU-2/91 the application was rejected by the
prescribed authority and earlier reports were confirmed. An
application was moved by 75 members of the society for action
under Section 25(2) of the Act on 20.4.1993. On 15.2.1994
elections were held and Sh. Umesh Chandra Saxena and
Sh.K.V. Reddy were elected as President and Secretary
respectively. on 29.9.1994 the Assistant Registrar passed
order holding that since the Constitution provides for
nomination of President election cannot be conducted. He also
held that in view of the interim orders in civil suit OS (No.) 200
of 1983 the respondent No. 1 P. Rajagopalachari shall
continue to work as President. As noted above the suit was
withdrawn on 10.7.1997 with liberty to file fresh suit. On
10.7.1997 writ petition No. 37023 of 1994 filed against the
order dated 29.9.1994 was dismissed by learned Single Judge.
On 24.11.1998 the Division Bench dismissed the special leave
No. 580 of 1987 holding that since under the Rules of the
society the post of the President and Members of the working
committee is not an elected one, Section 25 would not come
out and took play. The High Court, however held that
Registrar had no authority to direct anybody to continue an
office. It was further held that the application under Section
25(2) itself was untenable and so was the writ petition. On
22.1.1999 elections were held and again Umesh Chandra
Saxena and Sh. K. V. Reddy were elected as President and
Secretary in accordance with the amended provisions of the
Act. On 3.11.2003 Sh. Umesh Chandra Saxena expired and
Navneet Kumar Saxena was elected unanimously as the
President of the Society in an emergent meeting which was
held at Hyderabad by working committee. The general Body
on 22.11.2003 had approved and confirmed the election of the
Navneet Kumar Saxena as the President of the society.
Further the amendment proposed and adopted by the General
body of the society, in order to make the rules in consonance
of the provisions of the Act. On 12.2.2005 elections were held
in the society for electing the Managing committee and again
Navneet Kumar Saxena and K. V. Reddy was elected as the
president and Secretary respectively.
4. Primarily the stand is that if Section 3(A)(4) as introduced
by Act 11 of 1984 cannot be given a restricted meaning. If it is
elected to Managing Body "elected" then the provision made
would be rendered "nugatory". It is intended to provide that
even if Rules, say otherwise "elections" has to be introduced,
Section4 (Proviso) is also relevant. The stand is that earlier
there was no need for list of elected members as there was no
elected member. So the purpose is to have elected members.
Section 4 speaks of an annual list. If the intention was that
the members were to be elected, the legislature could have
said so specifically without leaving it to be inferred by
implication. Section 27 provides for the consequence for non
compliance with Section 4. It is stated that the position in
1975 was that chosen includes "election". Now, it only means
elected by implication and that to be read in the line of Section
3(A) and 4 proviso, it is pointed out that Section 25(2) refers
to election and the remedy to challenge. If there is no remedy
nobody is left remedyless. Alternatively, it is submitted that
assuming it is to be done by nomination, P. Rajgopalachari
could have been nominated, but it has been annulled on
16.4.1982 as Umesh Chandra Saxena remains nominated. It
is pointed out that role as President of the Sahaj Marg system
is different. The application filed by Sh. Rajgopalachari has to
be tested as per clause 3(b), these were not challenged and
Rajgopalchari cannot have nay role to play. P.Rajgopalachari
could not have been nominated because he is not in the direct
line of succession. In any event, after passing of order dated
16.4.1982 he has no role to play. The working committee's
decision, resolution of the General Body all are of similar
effect. The stand is strongly opposed by the respondent to say
that nomination were not merely in respect of the Sahaj Marg
system system but it was in respect of President itself.
5. It is pointed out that the earlier suit having direct effect
was withdrawn and the effect of it has to be considered. The
effect of the withdrawal of a suit has been considered by this
Court in K. Sivaramaiah v. Rukmani Ammal [2004(1) SCC
471]. It was inter alia observed as follows:
"So far as Original Suit No. 7359 of 1989 is
concerned, the findings recorded in the
judgment therein could have constituted res
judicata but the fact remains that the
appellate court permitted the withdrawal of the
suit and once the suit has been permitted to
be withdrawn all the proceedings taken therein
including the judgment passed by the trial
court have been wiped out. A judgment given
in a suit which has been permitted to be
withdrawn with the liberty of filing a fresh suit
on the same cause of action cannot constitute
res judicate in a subsequent suit filed
pursuant to such permission of the court."
6. It is not necessary to deal with the true import of
Sections 3(A) and 4. It would be appropriate to direct that the
pending suit shall be decided within a period of six months.
7. The effect and relevance of any proceedings which have
attained finality shall be duly considered in the pending suit.
It is open to the parties to move for such interim protection as
the circumstances warrant. The appeal stands disposed of
accordingly. No order as to costs.
The same can be viewed at the following address http://judis.nic.in/supremecourt/qrydisp.aspx?filename=31363
“Some” Thoughts
Regarding Navneet Kumar Saxena
1. About his so-called “answers” and his announcements of “legal results“(judgements:)
There is no more doubt now anymore, that he answers only questions he likes to answer. Others he doesn’ t answer, he postpones answers or instead of answering he is “out of station“ for weeks, or even for months.
One example of the past
“Anonymous said .. recently I have observed that site [note: website of SRCM Shajahanpur] has removed lot of information... any specific reason for this action? July 1 4, 2007 7:06 PM”
“Navneet said ... [note: in answer to the comment above, of July 14, 2007] The site information was lost due to crash of server on which it was uploaded. They did not have the complete backup. It will be updated again in next two - three days. Navneet July 17, 2007 11:01 AM”
We never could see any upload done, not in the following days, not later.
And now - in May 2008 - again: A short appearance of Navneet Kumar Saxena - and then silence.
2. About his credibility
How old was Navneet Kumar Saxena when his grandfather died? Can he give any qualified first-hand informations at all? His actions undermine not only his own credibility, but even more damage the reputation of his grandfather.
3. About the question of the only Guru of SRCM Shajahanpur
3.1. “Anonymous said: ...... Shortly I saw Navneet Kumar Saxena and his father (incl. photos ect.) as "successor(s)" on http://www.srcmshahjahanpur.org.in/facts.html. It is removed now. ...... October 16, 2007 11:58 AM”
How can be there any successors, if Babuji is the only Guru? Navneet Kumar Saxena never clarified why the articles and the photos of the “successors” were removed and why he himself was not even mentioned anymore.
3.2. From his (now removed) website: http://www.srcmshahjahanpur.org.in/successor.html
“Spiritual Representative shall essentially have to be a lineal descendent of Babuji Maharaj as per the orders of Lalaji Maharaj (from Babuji’s diaries) and the registered Constitution, Byelaws of Shri Ram Chandra Mission established on 21st July 1945. ...”
He never published the original quotation.
4. About “spiritual business” and the blog “Tell Me Truth India”
The real blogger of “Tell Me Truth India - A Platform To Know Truth About Social Justice In India.” is Navneet Kumar Saxena. The blog is a fake because the nominal bloggers originally tried to make the observers believe, that the website is an independent site on which a Navneet Kumar Saxena - after a few others - published his comment. (How kinky is this if you want to tell truth(s)!) Later when Navneet Kumar Saxena had got a “good number” of supporting (?) people it seems he thought there will be no more need to hide that it is his blog.
He started his first “comment” with: “... We are RUNNING a spiritual society...January 18, 2007 12:17 PM” - Not only for this reason the whole thing sounds to the alien reader like “running a business” and therefore the fight seems to be a fight over money and property. The subject of the blog isn‘t ‘Social Justice in India’. It is about Navneet Kumar Saxena’s personal battle. Apparently, he thought a blog would be helpful for finding “friends”? - Inbetween a good number of seriously interested people turned away in disgust.
If there was at least one lesson we got in this mood battle “Shashwat” expressed it recently, when he asked to speak openly and not to hide behind the internet. - But who did? - Navneet Kumar Saxena? “Shashwat”? “4d-don”?
5.. About “court cases”
In the past Navneet Kumar Saxena spoke about “court cases“ (of SRCM), but only a case number (and only one) was given to the public and people could only read a “record of proceedings” but they neither saw the indictment nor the response to the accusations which led to the record. He made serious, but unproved accusations like a “forged nomination”, different cases of attempts on life or murder, illegal influence on the judicial authorities of the Indian state and so on. On November 17, 2007 6:46 PM he said “Meanwhile the order awaited from lower court has just been passed and a few days back. But, we are still awaiting the main Supreme Court Order.... ” - He never explained how a case can be in a lower and the supreme court at the same time - because it is not possible. He didn’t publish the (complete) order, although again and again he was asked to do so.
Same with the last published order: It isn’t a “final judgement” at all.
All this isn’t an honest procedure. Already out of the assumption that he and his family suffered in the argument from the economic disadvantage with the more prosperous SRCM Chennai he had the benevolence of many readers, at least in the beginning. It was his own fault if he has had it as far as a big part of the public is concerned.
6. Regarding “ ...Navneet released the judgement on Tell me Truth India on May 3,....” and “OPEN LETTER TO NAVNEET KUMAR SAXENA.............Please, answer our questions before you go out of station again!” Posted by 4d-Don at 5/09/2008 09:04:00 AM
Three weeks are gone now. - And no answer, no comment, no sign of of life by Navneet Kumar Saxena....
Even 4d-don doesn’t worry about Navneet’ s life anymore....
Readers are used to the procedure. - Spreading some news..... - and again out of station he is.....? - They are still waiting.
Regarding 4d-don and his website
1. About objective criticism, neutrality ect.
Sometimes it seems to be difficult for 4d-don to be aware of what is the natural outcome of his personal experiences and hurtings and what is (objective) legitimate criticism. In the past 4d-don was told by others several times that in contrary to his own fate there are united families by SRCM, and not everybody had bad experiences in denominational boarding schools. There are highly respected institutions. Often the admission has to be restricted or waiting lists have to be installed for the number of candidates.
Subjective representations on one side lead to polarisations and sometimes overreactions on the other side. At the end everybody only sees what they want to see. The discussion is not only useless then but not a discussion at all.
“Our World from Another Dimension” seems to be a blog for all people who need a platform for their articulations against one organization and one particular person. (Where is a trial of “Religion and Spirituality”?) - Mostly out of personal reasons. Very rarely objective attitudes are to be seen in the comments.
The feelings of abhyasis who seem to be helpless because they didn’t find another “platform” or didn’t find a way to be heard (in the right place) are comprehendable. And especially, the results of the research on the Sufi origins and their publication are worthy.
Nevertheless everybody should deal with facts, their interpretations and with comments (writing, publishing or even reading them and judging) carefully. And as long as services only aggree on court orders of defamation as a reason to remove particular statements the best is to ignore some harassers.
Thanks to Woodworm for his considered comment.
Woodworm said: “..I am very confused by the reactions and extreme positions in your blog to the latest Court judgment....It is entirely your judgement call on what opinion you want to consider and publish. But remember your credibility too is at stake.”
4d-don answered:”....I am not a lawyer so my "un-professional" opinion does not matter, I simply made the Court JUDGEMENT available to all, ....I don't have a record of the original case...” May 18, 2008 12:15:00 PDT PM
Although 4d-don’s intention to open a platform for everybody is praiseworthy, his attitude expressed in the comment above is too simple; and the assumption is that he himself knows it quite well. The procedure of Navneet Kumar Saxena is too obvious..
Same with the attitude of a few other regular commentators and especially of Shashwat. They insult others, call them names, but exspect relevant and objective comments from them. If 4d-don gives harrassers a platform it is his responsibility. And 4d-don himself thoughtlessly divides commentators in pro-...... and pro-...... If this is “A Test of our Democracy”!
Big headline: “Chari Charged with "criminal offense" (says Navneet)” ....Posted by 4d-Don at 5/05/2008 12:22:00 PM. - Shall again his “un-professional opinion “ not matter here, with the explanation that he simply makes Navneets unproved statements available to all? - The internet makes it possible, but it doesn’t make the behaviour honest.
Maybe, it is allowed to point out to the following article written by a judge.
[From http://technology.findlaw.com/articles/01118/010197.html. (Although the text is quite long it is quoted fully for the reason not to quote any sentences out of the context.)]
“The Unchecked World of the Internet
PR Newswire
By Judge Edward Fadeley,
CRESSWELL, Ore., Aug. 8 /PRNewswire/ -- The following is being issued by Judge Edward Fadeley, Retired Associate Justice of the Oregon Supreme Court:
Today's blogosphere is a veritable Wild West of verbal ambushes and shootouts, with very little fear of legal recourse to keep character assassination, defamation and dirty business tricks in check. It's an area of the law that desperately needs serious attention. Self-proclaimed "experts" and "journalists" abound on the Internet. "Web logs are the prized platform of an online lynch mob spouting liberty, but spewing lies, libel and invective," wrote Daniel Lyons in Forbes. Some 50 percent to 60 percent of blog attacks are now sponsored by business rivals, said a lawyer quoted in the story.
Ten years ago Congress passed a law requiring blog operators to protect the public by self-regulation. But many flout that responsibility and willingly post inaccurate messages that damage others.
That law has stifled the courts' rights to recover damages for unauthorized, negligent or dishonest use of Internet sites, including blogs. The guarantee that a person injured may use the courts to recover has existed in our culture since the century of the Magna Carta, more than 700 years ago.
But free-speech guarantees haven't previously protected libel, defamation or spoken-but-fraudulent activity. As the strong free-speech in the Oregon Constitution also provides, for example: "...but every person shall be responsible for the abuse of this right."
These legal holes exist while the cyber Wild West keeps getting bigger. There were about 10,000 Web sites in 1994, according to Massachusetts Institute of Technology's Technology Review. By 2000 that number soared to more than 25 million, and sites continue to grow exponentially.
Sometimes it is impossible to find sources for damaging language published on the Internet. An example is Apple vs. Doe where, in December 2004, Apple filed a lawsuit in Santa Clara County, California, against unnamed individuals who allegedly leaked information about a rumored new Apple product to several online news sites. Apple is seeking information from these "news" sites regarding identities of the sites' sources, and has subpoenaed Nfox.com, the email service provider for PowerPage, for email messages that could provide that information.
The courts must walk a fine line between a federal statute interpreted as creating immunity and the responsibility for the harm caused by libel.
Unfortunately, many innocent companies are being damaged by individuals out for profit or self-promotion. Even in instances where legitimate organizations have been seriously damaged by bloggers, it's difficult to counter unfounded attacks or to demand the actual sources, let alone seek the protections of the law.
It needs to be further examined to determine whether the protections in place for journalists are appropriate for bloggers, when they are not held to the same standards as the mainstream media. Journalists are held to account for what they say, whether or not they are quoting someone else. Unfortunately, the law has yet to create reasonable standards for the Internet and allows anyone to quote any source, with almost no liability for what they say.
The impact on innocent parties can be severe -- some companies have lost millions in stock value from an irate individual speaking anonymously as an expert on a blog soapbox, making statements intended to be read as fact, although they may be nothing more than the venom generated by a personal and perhaps unjustified grievance. Even when such statements are later corrected or balanced, misperceptions are hard to change after the first assertion of fact.
Commenting on a recent case in which Traffic-Power is suing Aaron Wall, host of the Blog SEOBook.com, for defamation and the disclosure of company trade secrets, Steve Rubel, VP of client services with Cooper Katz and Co., noted, "Right now the world of consumer-created media is a bit like the Wild West. Anything goes. Eventually, as cases are decided (in either direction) and clear precedents are set, online marketers and their legal teams will be in a better position to assess their potential downside risk in jumping into the blogosphere -- if any."
The courts aren't helping matters. For example, Landmark Education, an international training and development company that presents The Landmark Forum, dropped its lawsuit in New Jersey against Rick Ross, a self-professed "cult expert" who has built a career and reputation by quoting people's opinions on his Web site. Landmark Education terminated its lawsuit when, in an unrelated case, a New Jersey court significantly limited the kind of Internet behavior it would consider damages for. Court decisions like that make it even more difficult for companies to protect themselves against misinformation and false accusations.
Ross, who claims he's an expert on cults, religions and any organization he deems potentially harmful, should be held to a higher standard - not a lesser one. Rick Ross is a convicted felon with no degree of any kind. He says so on his own web site. His lack of professional qualifications doesn't stop Ross from freely labeling credible organizations in the personal development area "worthless" and "faked." While Ross acknowledges that Landmark Education is definitely not a cult, he nevertheless smears the company through innuendo. Ross also attacks John Gray, author of "Men are From Mars, Women are From Venus," the Mormon Church and the practice of yoga.
Whether or not you endorse Gray or yoga, the law should protect their rights and demand journalistic standards and accountability.
It's high time to fill the gap in a system that allows defamation in the blogosphere to go unchecked. The harm can be wide-ranging and devastating. Until the law catches up with technology, innocent parties have little or no protection in the volatile world of cyberspace.
Judge Edward Fadeley is a retired associate justice of the Oregon Supreme Court.
2.About “apocalyptic” and truth(s)
“For those who claim that Shri Ram Chandra (California), is not "apocalyptic........", [Taken from a comment by Alexis on Elodies blog in France: Pour Que Vive Le Sahaj Marg Posted by 4d-Don at 4/20/2008 10:18:00 AM]
It seems to be a fact that it is at the eleventh hour for the Earth.. Nobody will deny this. If you think in “spiritual patterns” that everything, even earthquakes, is only an outcome in the material world then nothing special apocalyptic is in the quotation of SRCM (see: original comment).
But if you judge the article in another aspect you will be surprised.
“....here is an excerpt from Chari's book, "He, the Hookah and Me"........
In the Book the "Hookah"..... [note: Chariji said:]’....And I still get messages like that. In the most recent message, he [note: Babuji] asked me, he told me, he urged me to make sure that our preceptors, our abhyasis were absolutely progressing........ He said: "Make sure that our abhyasis are progressing......” ’ ” Posted by 4d-Don at 4/20/2008 10:18:00 AM [The problem is, there isn’t any proper reference (author, title. year, page.....)].
The question is: Did this French lady get t h e s e messages or Chariji himself? -
Only he who can read it in its context can make the correct interpretation.
But even then it will be difficult probably. To take up again Elodie’s comment about the description of Babuji’s visits at Lalaji’s house you have to consider that it is said that some people go for Truth (know Truth); and for them truth(s) are said not to be of much significance. If you read Gandhi’s autobiography it seems that he was very interested in being truthful even in small things. People not to be truthful in all matters (while others are) can become a problem for societies at least because for their functioning they need some -basic- ethics shared by all.
Look at the following quotation of a newspaper article (interview) (The quotation is not made to breed hate or for spreading prejudicies. And the reader is earnestly asked not to think the intention behind this comment is to hurt Indian people.)
“....Travelling through India Hartz was faszinated by a philosopher, who explained the relation of the Indians to lying.
‘He couldn’t calm down anymore.’
‘Of what type is the relation of Indians to lying?’
‘They don’t have any relation to it.’
[“DIE ZEIT”, 9/2006 DOSSIER “We Were Heroes”]
Maybe, similar to the poverty of Indians as an outcome of the priority given by Hinduism to inward orientation (and minor importance of materialism, at least in comparision to Western countries) over centuries it might also be the result of the importance given to the Search for Truth, that truth(s) have a minor meaning.
But as we see with Hartz. There is a high risk that people misinterpret philosophers and live neither according to truths, nor Truth. They are simple liars.
3. About the importance given to some “facts”
Big Headline “Thursday, May 08, 2008 Chari is Angry with the Supreme Court Judgement! “. The article starts: “Navneet released the judgement on Tell me Truth India on May 3, and Chari has cancelled most of his travels in Europe at the same date. We are told that it was not for health reasons. Should we see a causal link between the judgement and the cancellation of Chari's trip?....”
Better not! Because if you start thinking in patterns of “causality” like this you not only give Navneet’s fight too much importance but simply start misinterpreting what happens in the world.
3. Addition
1. to the article “Monday, May 26 2008 The Enemies of Spirituality? “ (Taken from Elodie' s blog (France) Posted by 4d-Don at 5/26/2008 11:24:00 AM
Writing a correct comment to the new article. would need a lot of time which not everybody has. But a few thougths (which probably 4d-don and a few others again will put into their pro.../pro.... scheme).
Opposites like
This “Nursery/University Level”
“It is gross/subtile”
“Based on fear and temptation/Love and Universal Brotherhood” an so on
are very debatable, arrogant and not true, because in religion there is spirituality. Nobody can deny that there were great mystics in all religions (and outside religions, too). But it is also true, that these mystics mostly were not accepted by the religious institutions. This is so until today. (There are living examples.)
But there are mistakes in Elodies comment.
It was Babuji who introduced the idea of “Where religion ends, spirituality begins.” and of “Religion is considered to be the kindergarten” ect. - Why does she not blame Babuji?”
And Elodies comment seems to be written with not much consideration. It is human and can happen, although there are parts in Elodie‘s comment, where she seems to be nearly furious and she should not allow herself to publish writings like this. (At least then she has to accept mistakes done by others,too. Nobody is perfect, even Babuji wasn‘t, as everybody can see.)
If she targets the .."self appointed" GURU” then she points out directly to a lack of Babuji; nobody appointed Babuji (only Lalaji in Babuji’s dream, which you may believe - or not). Chariji at least can refer to Kasturi, who never withdrew her affirmation about the fact that Babuji declared Chariji to be the one who should succeed Babuji as the President of the Mission.
If Chariji is “in Court with the Family of the FOUNDER, Babuji“ it seems that Babuji‘s family started the court proceedings (and their actions and reasons up to now are quite debatable).
And if Elodie writes “...I have abandoned nothing, I never relinquished......” and “...I abandoned the Mission.” she herself has to judge the (in-)consistence of her words, which seems to have its reason in an acting in the heat of the moment.
What is wrong with the sentences “Every religion talks of ‘one God’ but states that only their God is the best.”?
And what is the way out of the situation?
And the last: Her quotations :“...in a book published by his MISSION.....”- Readers need a proper reference, everything else is disputable.
Has Elodie ever tried to talk to Chariji, to Kasturi about the matter?
4d-don - in which way does he judge the comments, the importance of the them for the given subject of his blog; how does he make the decision about the publication on his blog?
What are his intentions?
2. article of Tuesday, May 27, 2008 “Spiritual Energy Generator” Posted by 4d-Don at 5/27/2008 12:22:00
Why don’t you simply take a drug? - Are you a yogi then?
This isn’t about “spirituality”. This is fishing in troubled waters.
3. How some people talk in this circle doesn’t show love as the force of their actions. - If you want to discuss “spirituality” live it and be an model.
Please, stop all this!
[Note: permission for publicaton only for the complete comment]