Questions to Navneet Kumar, Babuji's Grandson

This exchange is between Navneet Kumar and "others" (Alexis, Christian, Don, and many anonymouses) between Feb. 28, 2007 and Mar 5, 2007) on this site:

http://tmtindia.blogspot.com/2007/01/justice-should-be-for-all-not-only-for.html


THE TRUTH WILL SET US FREE!!

Anonymous said...

Many years ago, when Babuji first came to Europe, I remember seeing him seated, a small figure on a dais, flanked by three of the "big beasts" of the Mission at that time: Dr Hans Gangloff, Andre Poray and Chari. These three all spoke loudly and at some length while Babuji continued sitting quietly in the middle. As I watched, seeing both the sincerity and the proud egos of these three men, each of whom was obviously used to commanding authority, but each of whom was actually there because of their attraction and subserviance to the modest man in their midst, I recalled that Lalaji had told Babuji that he wanted "lions not lambs". I was struck to see these apparently strong, powerful people yet held in thrall, and it made me feel awed and proud that the slight figure of my Master, with his "forceless force" and "powerless power", who saw himself as a servant to others, was yet, in reality, the Master. These "senior" abhyasis could not avoid giving the impression of bringing their backgrounds with them - perhaps competitiveness, jealousies and jockeying for position, yet their helpless love for Babuji held them all in check. Rather than being critical, I felt proud then that my Mission should attract such large characters, not naturally weak, gullible, easily influenced or led. Babuji held them all spellbound, and their devotion reined them in. Where are they now? Babuji has said that it is not every moth that can immolate or burn itself on a dead flame.
Yours,T.S.

February 28, 2007 5:33 AM

4d-don said...

Hi all...

This is my POV as a 64 yrs old ex-abhyasi from the time of Babuji and the husband in a family of 35 years, now a "divided" family for three years since my wife became an abhyasi, four years ago. My experience and my research and comment are on my blog...
http://4d-don.blogspot.com/

One does not have to be a great "seer" or a "prophet" to see Chariji, his ego, and his effect on Sahaj Marg, the families of abhyasis, and on the MISSION. He is in competition with all other religious and secular "egos" who write their own "autobiography" and insist (or allow) on celebrating their own birthday. The desire to leave a "big footprint" (be worshipped) is what spirituality (including Chari) calls "selfish desires" and calls it something to "get rid of". Kim Jong Il of South Korea has only a "one day celebration" with children singing the praises of the "Leader" while some other children in the countryside go "hungry". Even the empirialist Holy Roman Catholic Church and many Christians only have a one-day birthday celebration (Christmas) for their Master and 40 days for "penance" or "austeries" (lent) as in Raja Yoga...There is no such period of "austerities" in Sahaj Marg but a "three-day bash" with a request for 1,000.00 US from every abhyasis so as to be "first" to receive a "mystery" gift FROM the GURU... (a book? a blessing? Spiritual Capitalism?)

That is "visible" ego, and the un-caring philosophy of the Mission as spoken in the Chari's speeches, reflects that ego, specially when so many are suffering in our world. No sex please, but lots of "Eating" and many "houses" (real estate) with SRCMtm. The Mission divides families but displays little or no "caring" about the poor except as a way to get "privileges" for themselves also, such as the Medical services program for the abhyasis in the name of "charity"...

One can see how the "guidance" from Sahaj Marg since Chari has not been "uniting" and "harmonious" and since Chari wants to call other religions (Hinduism and Christianity) "corrupt" (see the article on Wiki) one can compare the MISSION to the corrupt "Medici's" period in the Holy Roman Catholic Church that brought about a "reformation" and a "democratization" accompanied by a loss of power of this pyramidal and autocratic feudal remnants of the Roman Empire.

The Mission now is "feudal" with the various clans vying for power.

Sahaj Marg (Spirituality) in the hands of the Plutocrats (the wealthy) becomes dogmatic (to be obeyed without "logic"), hence, religious and divisive and is going down the same path as other religions and will have to face a "reformation" period and a "democratization" period. We could give SRCMtm the same "name" that Chari gave the other relgions: "corrupt?"...But no! Let us be kinder and call it "lost". I wonder if the UNITED NATIONS DPI program is reading these blogs or will anyone make it aware of them??....

SRCMtm is not "democratic" by my standard...It will only taint the UN and its DPI program as it "disempowers" women to traditional roles of "only service" (food, clean, etc..) without the ability to become "Masters" or "representatives" of the Society...That is not in agreement with the UN agenda and does not promote gender equality....I can show (with documents) what control is "Canadian" in the SRCM (Canada), with 7 out of 11 directors appointed by Chari's or his clan and not even "Canadians". And all the money is supposed to remain in the country where it was "raised"? ...that is the line that the abhyasis are told...any forensic auditors out there? Who is guarding the guards?

You gotta laugh b'cause it's not funny!

"Spirituality unites, religion divides"...

Who said that? Who repeated it?

4d-don...

February 28, 2007 7:44 AM

Anonymous said...

Hi,

As I understand it, there are spiritual systems allied to Sahaj Marg that sometimes recommend meditation on the "beloved" in whatever chosen form may be wished. Babuji recommended meditation on the form of the Master when this began to occur naturally. He continually stressed the need for finding a
Master of the highest calibre,
presumably having observed that continued meditation on a flawed or corrupt form would automatically lead to poor, if not disastrous, results.
Barcelona.

March 1, 2007 3:14 AM

Navneet said...

Yes! Babuji had done a will and got it refistered in court ay back in 1976 stating that he had lost 4 signed papers and there are chances of its misuse

Navneet

March 1, 2007 1:12 PM

Navneet said...

The meeting referred to in 1984 was a meeting which took place on 6th & 7th February 1984.

The copy of the minutes is available with us and it clearly states that Chari's nomination seem to be false and it also clearly accepts Umesh Chandra's nomination to be in words used by Babuji and elects him as president which was also confirmed by the General Body on 7th Feb., 1984.

It was on Babuji's orders that Shri Umesh Chandra did not be very active for 11 years to avoid these disturbances as Babuji clearly said that like he was poisoned and there were disturbances when he took over from his Guru same is expected after his physical absence.

Let it be clear to all that this is not a fight for money but it is a fight against people mis-representing Babuji. Babuji believed in Quality rather than Quantity. Hence we have been able to maintain Quality people around.

Also notice that the last letter is typed on an Electronic Typewriter, which you all know was not present in India in 1982. Is that not aproof in itself.

Moreover the case in the Apex court of the country has just taken place and decision is awaited have patience for the order and observations made by court.

For your knowledge there were observations from an High Court Judge that the document of Chari doesn't seem to be genuine as the cover letter was of an earlier date (4 days before) and the Certificate as stated by them was not folded and the envelope so submitted was a small sized envelope. The comments that how can a certificate of A4 size come in to a small envelope.!!!!

If you people wan't to be swayed away from reality and be guided by few unnatural claimants and propogators it is your problem not Babuji's. If you believe Babuji is the only Guru for the coming Years than get back to us or else we are not interested in people who don't believe Babuji & his masters orders which also is clearly noted fact as per Babuji's original diary.

How much more clear can a spiritual order be from Babuji's Master be when he has used the word 'Nutfey' in Urdu which you can verify means 'semen' in English. Stating that your successor will come out of your semen. Original Urdu jpeg file is also being published in our Jan-Feb Issue of Sahaj Marg Patrika.

It is SAD to note that People being in spiritual and being with Babujihave not realised who the true successor is. We are here to serve not be severed for standing in cause of Babuji, by not allowing anyone to deviate from the system laid and only of Babuji Maharaj. We happen to be his blood and you would agree blood is thicker than water. We will not be dishonest to our blood.

Also note that any sane person would not fight for a cause even when he is well settled in life and working at a respectable Management level in one of the top 20 Organizations of the country India. We are also not claiming to be Master's we are only saying we are servants following our Guru's Order.

One last thing on the 13th day from my father's unnatural death my younger brother was warned from reaching to Shahjahanpur by car in person on his way if he wanted his life to remain. But he rung us up and said that if Babuji has given us brothers this work we will not care for our life and he moved to wards Shahjahanpur. Soon within next 10 odd kms a Truck directly collided with the car by coming on the wrong side even when my brother changed his lane the truck followed the car and the car was completely damaged beyond repair. Person sitting right on his back seat died on the spot. But my brother had only a small bruise on his forehead that too due to breakage of glass.

Similarly I was also poisoned on the 3rd of February in the year 2003. I vomitted blood as my father did but could survive without any Medicine. All my Nails turned Blue after a day and one of them have still not taken back to the original colour.

This is the last time I am writing this to you if you people have started doubting on Babuji and start believing in his so called true disciples who have not let Babuji live his life then Nature shall only take care of you people.

Regards

Navneet.

March 2, 2007 11:40 AM

Navneet said...

Errata
Read 2nd line of 2nd last para as Year 2006 not 2003.

Regards

Navneet

March 2, 2007 12:13 PM

Alexis said...

Dear Navneet,

You said you have a copy of minutes of General Body nomination of Shri Umesh Chandra Saxena in 1984 February the 7.
I think it would be a good idea to publish them on your website, with the other letters.
Just 2 questions :
- What was the role of SP Srivastava between 1983 and 1994 ? Who were in the General Body in 1984 ?
- You didn't tell anything about the circumstances of unnatural death of your father. Could you tell us a little bit more ?
Thanks a lot
Alexis Mielkarski

March 3, 2007 5:41 PM

Navneet said...

Dear Alexis Mielkarski

If you see the last letter of Babuji it clarifies the role of Dr S.P. Srivastava and other 3 people. As my father was instructed not to actively involve till the true disciple only stay in this mission with him to avoid the repetation of history.

Hence Dr. S.P. Srivastava was heading the society as President so that the dispute could be solved and Chari stops his claim. It is only in 1987 when Chari again got up and attacked the Ashram with few of his followers asking to make him the President. the then ADministrative Authorities asked him to leve the town within 15 minutes and Section 398 was put on him and was barred from entring the district boundaries. Copy of the same is also with us. He has never again attemted to visit Shahjahanpur since then.

As far as my father's death is concerned. He was hale & hearty and we were busy with my younger brother's marriage celebrations.
He just had tea in the Ashram given by one of our disciples. felt uneasy and vomitted blood. he tried to control himself and the doctor was called. He said it is case of poison in blood. but he recovered by next morning and the doctor advised him to take a bottle of blood when he reaches Delhi.

He attended the engagement ceremony of my brother on the next day. He was walking but slightly weak because of loss of blood.

We came to Delhi and in the morning at 9:30 AM we took him to a hospital for a bottle of blood. The doctor gave Anaesthesia to him. We objected to it stating that for giving blood we don't give Anaesthesia. Doctor asked nurse to to push my mother out of the room. My father was talking just before the anaesthesia.

At 3:00 PM we came to know that my father had expired. Best part is I did not give this news to my motherfor about 1/2 hour but I received a call from Shahjahanpur that one of Chari's close aid in Shahjahanpur has rung the ashram and said that Sh. Umesh Chandra is no more.

I wondered that his news of death was known only to the doctor, nuse and me how could the news travel to Chari's camp. Later when I broke the news to my mother she cried saying that Chari has succeeded in killing him. When I asked for detail later came to know that about 15 days back one person had overheard Chari's now Secretary saying that we will have to first kill Umesh then his youngest son. because he is an advocate. He also said that they were talking of some doctor who would help them. My father took it lightly.

After relieving my father. The doctor was asked to do postmortem he refused stating no post mortem can be done. Take the body away. My mother was crying too much so we took the body back to our home.

To our surprise Chari's aides were there at our house within 1 hr of our bringing my father's body. When no one has any contacts or even meet them ever.

When we asked the doctor to give a certificate about his death. The doctor writes he was brought to the hospital with no pulse. How can a man go by lift after walking and sitting Chair after Doctor asked him to sit and tell doctor that he just needs a bottle of blood fast so that he could go back home and answers to doctor that he is just feeling weak and will go back home and be alright.

We then ask the hospital to give records of what was the treatment given to my father for just abour 4 hours that he died even when came walking. The Hospital staff refused to hand over the file to us. Which should be given to us as per law.

We later tried to enquire through a doctor to see the file inside the hospital and tell us about the treatment. Doctor of that hospital said that that particular file is not there all other file copies are there. he also said that he had enquired about it from others. he was told that you will not get that particular file. Dont talk about it till things settle.

Hope now every thing is clear. None of the above incident is manipulated it is a true story but nobody pays heed because of money, and Administrative powers etc. supporting him.

Regards

Navneet

March 4, 2007 6:12 PM

Anonymous said...

Dear Navneet,

Do you know under what circumstances Shri Parthasarathi Rajagopalachari obtained the ring (which had several different stones) which Babuji customarily wore?

Thank you. J.

March 4, 2007 10:44 PM

Navneet said...

Dear J

I don't know. But I just know one thing that the rings which Babuji wore were all distributed amongst his sons not Chari. Iwas present in Shahjahanpur when Babuji's Trunk & Box was opened.

It doesn't deter from the fact above.

Regards

Navneet

March 5, 2007 10:37 AM

Anonymous said...

Hi Navneet,

I'm Christian, you probably know me from my discussions about SRCMtm and Chari, on diverse blogs and from my own blog.

Can you tell me something to convince me about you?

I know Br. Narayana who works for Babuji through the ISRC.
Ss. Kasturi has also continued the work alone.
I consider these two persons as highly honnest.
Why are they not working with you?

I have thought about this affair a lot.
When I joined the SRCMtm at the end of the 80s, it happened that I also met dissidents by the same time, and from the begining of my practice, I was being connected to both clans and engaged mentally in this sordid story.

I have a high respect for your Grand-father, though I refuse to approach spirituality with the Indian attitude consisting in devoting to a man, furthermore dead, so long as I have not a direct inner relation built proving that I am not trapped in the play of imaginary and myths created by others, eventually the pathology of others.
No one is to interfere in between.

I was really upset to see how people use Babuji's name to propagate myths about him.
I made it my duty to analyse inconsistencies showing where we are drifting in a myth, where we are in spirituality - which is a mystery in itself.

All of us are trying to cover this mystery with explanations, when Babuji did his best to uncover it and offer it to human kind.
He let a teaching showing us how to uncover this mystery in ourselves to offer it to human kind, and so on.
However, you all try to stop this propagation process by creating an obnubilation of abhyasis on Babuji instead of god's realization.
For me, it is like creating a new religion.

The task I was involved in is difficult, and I received very little help.
It also put me in a difficult situation with people from the ISRC, who do want to believe.
Finally, I decided to let it go, for it has become obvious that no one can go against the flow of history.
A new religion is being forged.
It is probably all humanity could grasp from this new attempt of divinity to actualize itself in our species.

Babuji never wanted him to be deified by people from what I can read in his books, and loved as an idol - did he?
He wanted people to realize god.

He said that religion divides when spirituality unites, but we observe much division in his lineage.
Is it possible that this division results from a manipulation that you attribute to the clan of Chari, but which would involve other organisations?

You say you were poisonned, your father was, and your grand-father was, and there was a murder attempt on your brother's life.
On the other side, Chari says that he was poisoned and he probably fears for his life considering the security around him.
Spiritual people are not murderers, and I do not see Chari being involved in this kind of action.
Who could have interest in doing so?

I am convinced that you are manipulated on both sides or clans, against each other.
My feeling is that the 3 letters you produced on the website of the srcm shahjahanpur are all fakes, including yours.

Have you considered this possibility seriously?

There were surely few ideas or problems in Babuji's teaching causing division in brotherhood and aspiration for power, but it can't be enough to create this mess, or people are completely crazy.
As it seems they are not, as they seem to be sincere, I am now considering another option: manipulation from outside.

Is it something that you already thought about?

March 5, 2007 11:31 AM

Navneet said...

Dear Anonymous (Christian)

As far as you say Br. Narayana and Ss. Kasturi are highly honest. I don't refute the fact completely. As far Ss. Aksturi is concerned she was the one who in India said that Chari is the successor way back in 1984 which created this divide. She was all praises for Chari till late about Year 2000. It is only when Chari's Aides through her belongings out of Vizag Ashram and told her not to come back then she became against Chari.

Later my father met Ss. Kasturi asking her to come back to the original SRCM. She agreed but with a condition that she should be given the same place as that given by Babuji and that she would only then ask her followers to come along with her. My father said that she is welcome but, with a condition that there can be only one GURU and that is Babuji Maharaj and we don't wan't any more divisions in the system hence we would not allow anyone to propogate that they are their abhyasis. An abhyasi of SRCM should be only follower of one guru that is Babuji, which is in line with the orders of his Guru which is clearly mentioned in the Diary written by Babuji. She said that she will think it over.

As far as Br. Narayan is considered. He did meet my father way back in the late 90's and agred to support us then once the Supreme Court decides. I don't know his stance as of now.

I can only say that I am acting as per the wish of my master that he shall remain the only MAster till the end and I am no Guru. But, surely can make you feel the same transmission (which I hope you consider or have felt by now and is the synonimity of basis of spiritual elevation.) which was felt, during Babuji's time. Only experience proves.

Once again, Only experience of the true spiritual transmission is a test of presence. People following Babuji even after his physical demise know the best as to how they have had the feelings and presence of babuji. There is a saying in India that You can't tell the taste of anything unless you have tasted one.

It is only your materialistic approach which is making you think that you can't devote to man who is death. You are proving that all your forefathers wasted their time in Church, and you are saying against all spiritual & religious leaders which is false. Do not take this as an explanation that we are creating a religion. No we are not and we do agree that religion divides and spirituality unites.

The path of spirituality you also agree was given by Babuji in SRCM for the benefit of mankind. So what is wrong in abiding by his path and stating that he is the GURU and person who has shown us the path. As Prophet Mohammed had shown for a religion and as Gautam Buddha ji had shown for Budhism.

I hope that you will understand the above explanation if you are whee bit spiritual and understand that Life and death are materialistic and spirituality never dies. Hence the person who has shown us this path of spirituality too always remains a Guru. Even if you were truly devoted to Babuji's path you shouldn't have questioned his and his master's directions as a true seeker.

It does not matter to us whether you decide to take the right path or not. We are only doing our duty to guide people to the right & wrong and they are to decide their own fate.

I really don't know of the inconsistencies you are talking about may be these are there because you have still not completely got associated with the true follower who till date only believes in Babuji and his teachings. It may have cropped up because of your you have still not decided to follow a path and are detouring from the first principle of spirituality i.e. think from your heart not your mind. heart is the centre of spirituality. the moment yo start questioning and thinking here and there there is lack of faith in one particular path. Which is the root cause of all this misappropriations of your mind.

We still say follow what Babuji laid down and taught and practice what you are supposed to for your personal spiritual upliftment.

Please make sure that all the explanation is not to forge a new religion but to forge that all human irerespective of their religion, caste, creed, colour and sex have to follw the spiritual upliftment for their progress.

You have also misunderstood tha division in his lineage. Let me clear that we are against the divisions and we still say that Babuji is the oonly GURU and shall remain till the end of this world. Hence we are against anybody calling himself or herself as Master or a Sub-Guru aor demi-Guru. We are also preaching undivided SRCM who believe in only one GURU the founder alone.

Now the question of murder and last letters of Babuji being fake. You have joined in late 80s We also confirmed on various facts written in the last letter. If there are people around you who had attended the Paris function Ask them if it is false that Chari was proclaiming to be next president. Note same has been written in the letter. The letter also has corrections by hand. Babuji, i know you would not know had a peculiarity in his handwriting which is clearly evident from the letter.

As far as the letter of Nomination of my father and his sons is concerned try and connect the last letter with it and try and compare the words so written in the letters. Also do not forget the fact that Babuji never wrote anything about the mission without his Guru's name and directions too. Also do not forget that Babuji used to work in court and a person adept with law will always write in legal accent which the letter of my father's nomination clearly depicts. And the third letter we are saying is a forged one by Chari and am with you. as the content are no one near to the above stated facts.

If Babuji is gone physically, so does his son and his grandsons opposing Chari then no one opposes Chari as President. Is this reason not good enough to remain a GURU for Chari. But fact remains that when there are no takers as per the constitution and bye laws of the Trust it stands dissolved as per law. It will also not go in hands of culprits. I know my life is in Danger by writing all this but I don't want to budge away from the world like a hyena (who attacks and plays tactics) but wan't to die a lion's death.

Chari's poisoning is all crap. he has not stayed in Ashram after Babuji's funeral. Now it is more than 20 years now. He is trying to take sympathy after we put forward this last letter of Babuji. and in this shelter he and is his aides are playing all the games. You will not believe it because none of your family mambers have faced death in this fashion.

Do not forget that any society or organization works by Byelaws and rules laid down in the constitution. Which was laid down Way back in 1945 when I suppose no one of you or for instance even me were the followers of Babuji. It is very clear in it that as per Section 3a & 4b of the same President has to be in Direct line of succession only. At that time and even todat direct line of succession means genetic son and then his son.

Have ever considered that Spirituality is science. You also would agree that we are made of particles and electrons too. which align in aparticular direction. Transmission is magnetic in nature as it is a flow of energy. It is this energy which aligns us towards spiritual goal. Now when Babuji established this mission and was the one who gave the system for others to follow. He had his particles and electrons always aligned to spirituality.

rest is for you people to analyze as to who is the best representative of such a being. This fact has been aptly told by his Guru in his diaries. You just need to correlate things with science of spirituality.

There is saying. that A cat closes his eyes and drinks milk thinking that no one is seeing it drink. but the fact will remain that the milk has been drunk. So if you don't believe on the facts it is your problem not the world around.

Rest is for you to decide from Heart not your Head.

Regards

Navneet

March 5, 2007 12:53 PM

Alexis said...

Dear Navneet,

I understand your anger if Chari's group is responsible for all you said.
But, much of us weren't in the SRCM in 1983-84, it makes a long time. Like you say , Kasturi was for Chari at this time. KC Narayana said us that the letter of your father was a forgery. He said Chari was president but not spiritual representative.
All these people are serious. Who to believe ?
For understanding and choose, the history of facts should be known, all the history must be known. I thus think that it would be necessary to publish the copy of the minutes of the decision and the list of people who took part of it.
I'm really sad for all of your family.
Regards
Alexis

March 5, 2007 4:05 PM